Overturning Warning Labels On Both Sides?

[PipeIT]

Does anyone know with the USA FDA law(s) on warning labels placed on both sides, if any tobacco group, anyone, is trying to get this over turned, so that warning labels only need to appear on one side, or not at all?

Adults can only smoke in the USA, but I only find that the driving force here is that Government believes it needs to inform us, as if we don’t realize these things already, and no other logical reasons as to why the USA Government believes we have to continue warning adults now in the year 2022, given this age of information.

Call me Old Fashioned, a Romantic, a Codger, Nostalgic, etc., I seriously love Tin Art.

I think the tin art it conveys a history of what we are seeing, not always just random art work with no meaning(s), but people, companies, their history, with various pasts, and stories placed as art upon these tins, to share all of these things.

I just try to keep only the labels, but when they don’t peel off, I just keep the tin tops.

I just received new tins of Samuel Gawith, all the SG blends I’ve had, have been around 7-10 years of age, so all these nice older tins don’t have these warning labels. This is my first time with new SG Tins and these warnings, so sad.

On a side note, it looks like Gawith has placed their tabac in a different tin material, and they also placed a plastic wrap around the tin too.

I know there are a lot of pipe smokers out there that could careless about Tin Art, but I believe there are a lot that do, and I believe these labels destroy that Art. Maybe that is an angle to play on this; ‘The Preservation of Company Art’, it’s historic value.

There are certainly some very big names in the Pipe Tobacco world on this forum, maybe they already possess the knowledge, or abilities needed to make this happen, so please for everyone, let us please respect this post, to see what change can be made if any.

All countries have Historic Preservation, and Art Conservation, hopefully the future can see a way to include the history of Pipe Tobacco Tin Art into the Art Conservation world and protected. hmm ?

I know this can become a heated discussion, but I hope everyone will please keep it civil and on topic, so that it stays open, maybe this can help move us in the direction needed to make label change happen.



Thanks ?

 

[anotherbob]

couldn't care one way or the other. I prefer bulk anyways.

 

[Servant King]

I'm with you...love tin art! That's part of the reason I'm so enamored with Drew Estate. That Brooklyn Bridge motif is my favorite.

Funny, I'm now reminded of the fact that George Carlin once said that these kinds of warnings were too general, and should have been more specific. I loved his suggestion for alcohol warnings. I believe it was something along the lines of, "Warning: This product will turn you into the same asshole your father was!"

That'd be lovely if those ugly things went away. I'd certainly do my part by sparking up a bowl to celebrate.

 

[Simmerdown☕️]

Tins haven’t been art for a very long time. Some European blenders still sell seasonal & small batch tins that are very beautifully done. Since stickers became the norm, these ceased being art for me. And after all…it’s what’s inside that matters. ?️

 

[warren]

I know this can become a heated discussion, but I hope everyone will please keep it civil and on topic, so that it stays open, maybe this can help move us in the direction needed to make label change happen.

Everyone should have a dream I suppose. Good for the soul.

Consider how few pipe smokers there are. Then, consider how small the percentage of them are aficionados of "tin art." These few are spread over the globe. So, how much pressure could be exerted on some government entity, somewhere in the world, to declare "tin art" historical and then enforce some rule on the world to keep such "art" unmarred by health warnings. Then consider the percentage of the population who really do not care about such a trivial matter. Throw in the huge part of the population who simply want smoking to go away.

It's your dream . . . cling tightly to it. But, it ain't gonna happen.

Perhaps you could start a Tobacco Blend Tin Art Museum to preserve for posterity some relics of a better age for smokers. You might carry that off. Might even qualify for a grant of some kind if you place the site in the right country. Germany? There is an awesome pipe museum located somewhere there. Perhaps they have a wing available.

 

[fireground_piper]

The labels were shot down by the courts about 2 years ago. Any existing labels are simply on behalf of the manufacturer.

 

[monty55]

Like you, I love the tin art of old. Point in fact, I love everything that's old. But like Simmerdown said, for the most part tin art went by the wayside when paper labels came out, and it's what's inside that really counts. Pipe smokers are a dying breed. The last vestiges of a bygone era. Frankly, I'm surprised there's still enough of us to keep blenders in business. I've started to collect some old tin art to put around my cellar that puts me in that mood of yonder years. I'd suggest you do something like that in order to put your mind in a good place and not fret over what we have no control over.

 

[HawkeyeLinus]

I'm not sure how a call for political action isn't anything but politics, but . . . I like the tin art as well, but I just need one of the old tins of something I like to look at to satisfy that urge if I'm not buying for the reason that it may have some age on it, for example. Grousemoor is my favorite! Nobody here is changing labelling laws in the UK, for example, nor the U.S. to the extent they apply. If the manufacturers don't like it good luck to them in lobbying for that effort, but the warning ship sailed a long time ago and will just keep heading for the horizon, IMO.

 

[frozenchurchwarden]

If there is any popular traction to the idea of maintaining classic tin art I'm sure the distributers would love to sell you a pack of stickers for a few dollars.

 

[daveinlax]

Considering that most “pipe tobacco” sold is intended for RYO Cigarettes I can’t imagine the FDA removing the warning labels.

 

[lukasstrifeson]

Hmm interesting... Here in the Northeast US a couple of my recent orders have been warning label free:

Hadn't really noticed it actually until I read this thread.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I'm really surprised that they even still use tins at all. Why not just start putting all tobacco in glass jars like jellies come in, or cheap plastic cans, or pouches? Of course the reason is marketing. Most pipesmokers will buy anything that has an old name or old looking labels on them, despite what swill is now being put in those tins. If they changed the packaging, people might start paying more attention to the actual tobacco tastes.

Also, the more people complain about warnings on the labels, the more those people see that they are working. The very idea is to prevent you from loving your dangerous product, so that maybe you will quit. I'm sure someone working for the FDA is reading this right now and smiling and laughing with glee at this thread. "Muah ha ha, our evil plans are working."

 

[captpat]

I like tin art as well, but I don't think warning labels are going away anytime soon. The government has a vested interest in discouraging smoking and I suspect that manufacturers can use these warnings as a defense should they be involved in a lawsuit.

I also don't believe that the "age of information" necessarily leads to a common interpretation of the facts or even an awareness of the issues, yet another reason for continuing the warnings.

 

[lukasstrifeson]

I'm really surprised that they even still use tins at all. Why not just start putting all tobacco in glass jars like jellies come in, or cheap plastic cans, or pouches? Of course the reason is marketing. Most pipesmokers will buy anything that has an old name or old looking labels on them, despite what swill is now being put in those tins. If they changed the packaging, people might start paying more attention to the actual tobacco tastes.

Also, the more people complain about warnings on the labels, the more those people see that they are working. The very idea is to prevent you from loving your dangerous product, so that maybe you will quit. I'm sure someone working for the FDA is reading this right now and smiling and laughing with glee at this thread. "Muah ha ha, our evil plans are working."

Say what you want about Ken's blends but the mylar bag and mason jar sticker approach is probably the future.

To the bolded point, I think unfortunately you are correct there: the more we complain the more it'll be viewed as 'working'.

Dug a little deeper and here's another order from earlier in 2021 that was also warning-free:

 

[SoddenJack]

I’m with you in spirit, but I can’t believe with all the looming potential regulations anyone is investing much time, energy, and money into fighting multiple warning labels

 

[Andriko]

Far from going away, I expect such labels and warnings will start appearing on alcohol, meat ad 'junk' food products. Indeed, why not? If the justification for the anti-smoking crusade is 'public health', then obesity is a bigger issue and has more severe consequences that are arguably chronic from the get go.

Getting rid of tobacco branding (and introducing plain packaging) has also been justified on the grounds that evil tobacco companies do this to market to children, because, you know, I started smoking because Rothmans had a cool cigarette packet or something.

The fact is, the general population hates smoking, and have become quite puritanical about it. As Cosmic says, if we complain they will just take it as a sign it's working. We are a dying breed, whatever way you cut it.

 

[PipeIT]

After posting this, I should of made a point, to look at this from a historical and artistic perspective, in which the tobacco industry as a whole, has created extreme amounts of revenue for countries around the world, my understanding important, beneficial revenue.

I meant this, not only about Tin Art, but all the art, that revolves around the industry, for what little governments might not like to admit, has helped shaped nations, so that the overall industry does have a place in history.

Branding, Business Images, etc., as important as these things are to businesses, I would of also thought, these rights of business could also be protected this way too, the image they want portrayed on their products etc...

hmm ?

 

[Andriko]

After posting this, I should of made a point, to look at this from a historical and artistic perspective, in which the tobacco industry as a whole, has created extreme amounts of revenue for countries around the world, my understanding important, beneficial revenue.

I meant this, not only about Tin Art, but all the art, that revolves around the industry, for what little governments might not like to admit, has helped shaped nations, so that the overall industry does have a place in history.

Branding, Business Images, etc., as important as these things are to businesses, I would of also thought, these rights of business could also be protected this way too, the image they want portrayed on their products etc...

hmm ?

To play with the Devil's Avocados, there are a lot of other industries that have shaped nations, such as Opium, Slavery, Organized Crime etc. The Anti-smoking lobby treat the tobacco industry as if it swims in those sorts of waters. All my life I have been told how evil cigarette companies market directly to children, influence government policy for their own interests and so on. I even read a recent report saying that tobacco industries have used a loophole to get around the ban on menthols by marketing menthol filters and so on - despite the fact that I have never seen an advert or promotion for them ever, and that particular study was the first I'd heard of such things.

As for your last point, this is true - I cannot think of any other product that has it's marketing and branding so heavily controlled by government, even though one can probably quite easily make the argument that there are plenty of products which do far more harm to individuals and society then tobacco. How many road accidents are caused by smoking, for example? Has smoking lead to the highest rates of teen depression in history, something which smart phone use has almost certainly caused? The result of the latter is an increase in teen self harm and suicide.

The US at least has the benefit of the 1st amendment and a separation of state and federal regulations, which I believe are the reasons that plain packaging has not been totally inflicted on the US.

 

[warren]

I cannot think of any other product that has it's marketing and branding so heavily controlled by government,

Drugs, alcohol, automobiles, gas operated machinery (California), many foodstuffs, banks and lending institutions, medical care, child care, the mining industry, the oil industry, are the first products/industries that readily jump to mind.

And, the 1st Amendment only applies to speech regarding government, not advertising. There are various laws (State, Federal and local) regarding false advertising and such designed to protect consumers. These affect everything from vehicle resale to the sale of livestock, real estate, and so forth.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

I sat down and made a list of my top 500 priorities in life. Tin art didn't make that list. Nuff said.