Oh, Look! Another Storage Room Full of Unfinished Stummels!

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mso489

Lifer
Feb 21, 2013
41,210
60,610
From time to time, we hear the story that a series of pipes from an established brand have been made from stummels decades old, discovered in the storage room of some factory. The first time I read this, I thought oh boy! The tenth time I read this, I began to wonder. Every time a factory is closed or sold, they leave behind a few thousand unfinished bowls with shanks all carved and awaiting finishing? How often does this happen? How often can we believe them? Does anyone else smell the distinct twang of old fish? Incidentally, I have a nice poker/sitter pipe from a French brand that claimed this, but I like the pipe anyway.
 

Aomalley27

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 8, 2021
763
1,701
Chicagoland area
Seeing as a lot of production facilities house several brands, it not that rare. Take, for instance, the St Claude factory that produced Butz Choquin. Or when production shifts to a different facility. Peterson moved from England to Italy, and plenty of stummels were “lost in the shuffle”.
Biggest thing is to research their story behind the “suddenly found” mythos. If you don’t see any facility change, or brand ceasing production, I’d be leery of such claims.
 
There are many industries based on finding and retailing things bought in bulk and lost in warehouses. My wife used to go to New Yorn and Boston to go through warehouses where 100, 80, 50, 20 some odd years ago, someone bought a box of jewelry, findings, genstones, fashion accessories, etc… and they just let them set.
She used to send me back pictures of other things found in these warehouses, boxes of booze, pocket watches, sometimes food, or long forgotten boxed sculptures. It seems impossible to us now to think that someone buys up a crate of pipes and then forgets about them, but it’s lucky for us when we find them. When I first joined here, I bought a portion of a box of French bulldog stummels that Skip had bought that were all over 100 years old. They all just needed stems.
 
Why is so many of these things found in France??
Didn’t the French mass produce pipes first. I think they are still given”wink wink” credit for making a lot of pipes for other companies. Maybe why so many forgotten pipe parcels are found from France is because of the scale of their industry. I can’t say that more are actually found IN France, but from there. Just an idea…
 

danimalia

Lifer
Sep 2, 2015
4,469
27,079
42
San Francisco Bay Area, USA
Interesting... The reason I largely believe these claims are legit is because aside from giving the pipes a bit of an interesting story, I don't see the advantage in it.. I don't see the old stummells as being any more desirable than new ones made by modern craftspeople and artisans... The brand I'm most familiar with in this area, Ropp, really does use some old timely shapes and dimensions as well...

I like my Ropp... And aside from my usual skepticism of marketing hype and the like, I trust SP. They're not perfect, and I don't love everything about them, but I do believe they're honest. Their involvement gives me confidence in the validity of the project, though I like the pipe regardless of whether it was shaped in 1920 or 2020.
 

mingc

Lifer
Jun 20, 2019
4,233
12,552
The Big Rock Candy Mountains
Well, as some of you know, Trevor Talbert bought a French pipemaker's business and moved to France for a while. Aside from the house and the workshop, the inventory that he bought included volumes of pre-shaped machine-made stummels that he uses for his Ligne Bretagne line of pipes. He's since moved back to the US and after almost 20 years he's still making Ligne Bretagnes from who knows how many of those old stummels he still has.
 
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Aomalley27

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 8, 2021
763
1,701
Chicagoland area
Interesting... The reason I largely believe these claims are legit is because aside from giving the pipes a bit of an interesting story, I don't see the advantage in it.. I don't see the old stummells as being any more desirable than new ones made by modern craftspeople and artisans... The brand I'm most familiar with in this area, Ropp, really does use some old timely shapes and dimensions as well...

I like my Ropp... And aside from my usual skepticism of marketing hype and the like, I trust SP. They're not perfect, and I don't love everything about them, but I do believe they're honest. Their involvement gives me confidence in the validity of the project, though I like the pipe regardless of whether it was shaped in 1920 or 2020.
The value would be in the wood itself. Aged briar smokes remarkably better. Smoking a Peterson patent era pipe, is quite different than a more modern 1980’s Palmer era pipe. (I don’t include the truly modern Laudisi era, as the craftsmanship isn’t the same).
 

johnnyreb

Lifer
Aug 21, 2014
1,961
613
I began to wonder. Every time a factory is closed or sold, they leave behind a few thousand unfinished bowls with shanks all carved and awaiting finishing?
I always thought they were a bunch of accumulated seconds because of needed fills in the briar, in a time before sandblasted finishes? They work nicely for the popularity of a sandblasted finish today.
 

Aomalley27

Part of the Furniture Now
Mar 8, 2021
763
1,701
Chicagoland area
Peterson found some amber stems not too long ago. You stop production of a certain line. Remaining stock is inventoried, and gets lost in the shuffle.

I worked for Dial Soap, who used to be owned by Hornet. Found a pallet of really old canned meat behind a super sack of T31, which is a 2000lbs sack of raw, translucent soap pellets.
 

craig61a

Lifer
Apr 29, 2017
6,159
52,926
Minnesota USA
Not surprising due to the way a factory operates, especially back in the old days.

A line would be tooled and setup for a production run of a specific product, and then those would be turned out until they reached a certain level, maybe enough for a whole year. A lot of factories also supplied raw stummels to other manufacturers.

A large manufacturer nowadays spends a fraction of time on setup these days. CNC equipment just needs the proper tooling placed in it and a program loaded, whereas back in the old days setup was done by hand, and would have taken a day or more.

Being able to change to different production so quickly nowadays allows for smaller runs to be made, lowering cost, less inventory on the shelves.
 
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swilford

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 30, 2010
209
747
Longs, SC
corporate.laudisi.com
Important things to know when assessing validity of these claims (and the claims are totally valid):

1) Bowls in factories are usually turned en masse. Setting up and tooling for bowl turning 'French-style' (which is also used elsewhere, but that's the term we use for it because it originated in France) takes a long time, so people turn a lot at once. It makes sense to turn all that you need for months rather than retool the line for another shape every few hours. Not all bowls are turned French-style, but if you're turning a lot of bowls at once, it's by far the most efficient way to do it (and the overwhelming majority of production at all of the larger factories is done this way). A typical run size for Savinelli is 2,000 bowls of a given shape at once. They don't use that many in a year for most of the shapes in their catalog (320KS, 606KS, 626 and a few others being exceptions, but they probably turn 105s every five or six years).

2) You have limited control on the yield. Briar is graded, so you turn more bowls when you need one or two of your grades, not when you're totally out. This leads to surfeits of certain grades (which grades are which and how things are graded vary from factory to factory, but the underlying issue is universal) over time.

3) The pipe industry in 1960 was about 50 times the size it is now. In 1980, Peterson made about half a million pipes a year. Today it makes about 60,000 pipes/yr. And it's one a tiny number of factories left; far more closed than are still around (and there are no pipe factories that make a lot of pipes that are not at least decades old).

Those three things in combination means, yes, there are piles and piles of old bowls laying around. Indeed, every real pipe factory--Peterson, Savinelli, Chacom etc--has high tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of turned bowls on hand, some of which they don't really know what to do with at any given time. So, part of running a pipe factory is figuring out what to do with bowls that aren't presently being used that might be five or ten (or in the case of the Chacom factory 50 or 75) years old.

The story in St Claude is particularly interesting because you have lots of pipe factories decades ago collapsing into very few today. On top of that, there was a huge shift in pipe tastes (size, bent vs straight) mid-twentieth-century, which effectively orphaned a lot of small, straight stummels (which is how Ropp happened).

Also, yeah, a stummel sitting there for five years and a stummel sitting there for fifty just aren't all that different (the older one is likely a little harder to work with in the factory because of how it takes stain, but I don't think it matters at all to the smoker), but it is interesting that they're old and all that comes with it (shape, size, and the story that goes with it).

Finally, as a consumer, it's easy to get hung up on bowl turning = making a pipe, which is not true. As a percentage of the work and cost that goes into making a pipe, it's somewhere between 15% and 25% (depending on a variety of factors and varies from factory to factory). It's a bit like saying 'getting iron ore to sheet metal in spec is basically car manufacturing, right?' When you think of it as a discrete input into a bigger manufacturing process, the fact that it's done discretely (as part of an independent process) from the rest of production into which shelved inventory is fed, it makes a whole lot more sense.