My Mixture 965 new and old

[quantumboy]

My only experience with 965 Mixture is from many years ago, or with tins that were purchased many years ago when it was still Dunhill. It was (and maybe still is, I don't know!) one of my standards, but I understand that change of ownership can often change a blend. Can any of you advise on the differences between the Dunhill and the newer versions?

 

[eyjaygaming]

Same blend produced by the same manufacturer for decades (STG). Surely there have been leaf changes (as there always has been) - meaning better leaf is available now than 50 years ago

 

[khiddy]

Same blend produced by the same manufacturer for decades (STG). Surely there have been leaf changes (as there always has been) - meaning better leaf is available now than 50 years ago

Well... your first sentence is certainly true.

The second claim, "better leaf is available now than 50 years ago," is highly debatable, depending on one's appreciation of leaves like Yenidje (no longer available at all) or Syrian Latakia (not available). And some folks (e.g., Mike McNeil) go so far as to say that Virginia leaf quality has dropped enough that they simply quit the business rather than work with available crops. That is an extreme position, but it underscores the debate.

*Note, I'm not saying that Yenidje or Syrian Latakia are/were part of the MM965 recipe, they are just examples of leaf no longer available.

 

[Auxsender]

…meaning better leaf is available now than 50 years ago

I think I saw a post of yours recently that hinted or intimated or outright said you are in the tobacco biz so you may very well know things about it most of us do not and I respect that but the consensus around here is the exact opposite of the above statement.

 

[sablebrush52]

My only experience with 965 Mixture is from many years ago, or with tins that were purchased many years ago when it was still Dunhill. It was (and maybe still is, I don't know!) one of my standards, but I understand that change of ownership can often change a blend. Can any of you advise on the differences between the Dunhill and the newer versions?

Are you referring to the difference between Dunhill made Dunhill blends, which haven’t been made since 1980, and successor manufacturers?
Because the biggest difference is the amount of processing and aging that the blends underwent prior to release. They were fully mature and fermented under controlled conditions before they hit the shelves.
Every change of manufacturer has involved an amount of simplification in the process to reduce costs, which in turn reduces the character of the resulting product.

 

[Waning Embers]

Same blend produced by the same manufacturer for decades (STG)

STG took over production in the early 2010s. Murray's had it prior to that.

 

[Pipeandapencil]

I think Match 20 is supposed to try and match the original blend, wouldn't know I've never tried either. I dont see any reason to try them though when the current version is so good. For what it's worth this is the only tobacco every my wife has ever tried of mine, and she actually liked it! She said it taste like she just ate a steak. What more approval could I need?

 

[eyjaygaming]

I think I saw a post of yours recently that hinted or intimated or outright said you are in the tobacco biz so you may very well know things about it most of us do not and I respect that but the consensus around here is the exact opposite of the above statement.

Absolutely. Lot of outdated knowledge and bullshit flying around the forums. Leaf has never been more readily available, with the amount of varietals, selection, nicotine/sugar varieties, grades etc than ever before (if you're able to afford and process it, which only a few do, like STG, DTM and Gawith... C&D gets their leaf pre-processed/cut/cased by Alliance One, as they don't own their own primary). But yeah, the main difference to old blends will surely been Tonka/Coumarin, which was sprayed over almost all processed pipe tobacco back in the day to make it taste better and hide poor grades.

 

[Sig]

Great, now I need to break into my sealed 5 pack (roll) of 965 from 2001 (Murray) to compare it to a tin of the new stuff.
Thanks a lot @quantumboy !!
If I were smart, id be selling a bunch of this stuff. Because im going to pop a tin of the 2001, and be like.....ummm, yep, that's 965.....tastes right.
Then pop the new tin and be like....ummmmmm, yep, that's 965....tastes right.

 

[VDL_Piper]

@quantumboy if you're smoking old pre STG Dunhill 965 then yes you would certainly note a difference between that and the current iteration.

 

[quantumboy]

Great, now I need to break into my sealed 5 pack (roll) of 965 from 2001 (Murray) to compare it to a tin of the new stuff.
Thanks a lot @quantumboy !!
If I were smart, id be selling a bunch of this stuff. Because im going to pop a tin of the 2001, and be like.....ummm, yep, that's 965.....tastes right.
Then pop the new tin and be like....ummmmmm, yep, that's 965....tastes right.

If I am responsible for causing you to break into your 24 year old stash of 965, then I am indeed proud! LOL! It will likely be a religious experience. No doubt you could make some decent cash selling your stash, but the old stuff is absolutely worth hanging on to!

 

[fireground_piper]

C&D gets their leaf pre-processed/cut/cased by Alliance One, as they don't own their own primary).

Are you sure on that? That doesn't feel accurate based on many videos out there of their plants over the years.

 

[ssjones]

I've been smoking 965 for about 12 years now, its 98% of what I smoke.
I only know the STG product and now Peterson. They smoke the same to me.
LesTrout gave me a 30 year old tin of the Murrays blend, one day, I'll pop that tin open.

 

[lukasstrifeson]

Same blend produced by the same manufacturer for decades (STG). Surely there have been leaf changes (as there always has been) - meaning better leaf is available now than 50 years ago

I feel like this is the exact opposite of what we've been hearing from boutique blenders and at pipe shows for years. People have been bemoaning the shrinking of the hobby in general for decades and I suppose the most recent round of consolidations seem to validate that fear.

Be curious to hear why you think otherwise.

Absolutely. Lot of outdated knowledge and bullshit flying around the forums. Leaf has never been more readily available, with the amount of varietals, selection, nicotine/sugar varieties, grades etc than ever before (if you're able to afford and process it, which only a few do, like STG, DTM and Gawith... C&D gets their leaf pre-processed/cut/cased by Alliance One, as they don't own their own primary). But yeah, the main difference to old blends will surely been Tonka/Coumarin, which was sprayed over almost all processed pipe tobacco back in the day to make it taste better and hide poor grades.

Like @khiddy mentioned above, Yenidje and Syrian Latakia are two highly regarded leaves for blending that are no longer readily available.

And I would add that the main difference (or at least the one I've observed other the years) is that companies used to age their blends heavily before distribution, whereas now it feels like you get very fresh crops when they drop a new batch on the market.

 

[sablebrush52]

It’s not just a question of the quality of the leaf. It’s the method of harvesting, the sourcing, the processing, and the quality of the blending.

I’ve seen yenidje available at whole leaf sites.

I have very distinct taste memories of blends from 50 years ago, and the smoothness and richness of blends like State Express or 759 aren’t showing up on shelves.

So if the leaf is better than ever, the rest of the pipeline isn’t taking advantage of it.

 

[ofafeather]

I still have a bit of 965 bulk from the early 2000s. It’s great stuff. There were I think 3 bulk Dunhill blends then. Memory is fuzzy but I believe EMP and Nightcap were also available in bulk. Altadis was also offering their own “match blends” at the time.

 

[ssjones]

I still have a bit of 965 bulk from the early 2000s. It’s great stuff. There were I think 3 bulk Dunhill blends then. Memory is fuzzy but I believe EMP and Nightcap were also available in bulk. Altadis was also offering their own “match blends” at the time.

I bought four pounds of bulk MM965 when it was discontinued. Micheal at JB Hayes gave me the jar sticker when he emptied it for the last time.

 

[Pipeandapencil]

965 and EMP in bulk to me, a new pipe smoker, just seems wrong.... The whole experience would just feel so much cheaper. I know it's not the same but when I grab that 965 tin I just think of Faulkner holding the same (looking at least) tin, scribbling his newest book all over the walls of his house. It adds the the experience, and I understand it's all just fantasy... the blend, maker, taste, etc. are all different. But we work with what we got...

 

[ofafeather]

965 and EMP in bulk to me, a new pipe smoker, just seems wrong.

I prefer tins in general. It has a certain cachet, like you pointed out. On the other hand, it is usually significantly cheaper. Either way, over 20 years later this MM965 is great stuff.

 

[daveinlax]

I still have a bit of 965 bulk from the early 2000s. It’s great stuff. There were I think 3 bulk Dunhill blends then. Memory is fuzzy but I believe EMP and Nightcap were also available in bulk. Altadis was also offering their own “match blends” at the time.

The Dunhill My Mixtures 965, EMP and NC sold bulk in the US back then were made by Lane Ltd. I liked them better than the tinned stuff from Murray, but that was me. The sticker on the 5lb “pillow” said imported but it was made in Tucker, GA.

The bulk A—,—— Mixtures sold in tins at the Dunhill shops were all relabeled Lane Bulk mixtures.