Making my own Cavnedish. Need some advices

[storfiskarn52]

Hi all! As I write, I have some raw Vriginia leaves along with some tobacco pickings and crumbs steaming on my stove. Yesterday I did the same. After steaming I hung the leaves over the edge of my steamer and I let in dry over night. As I used a guide, I made a cake which I subjected to pressure for about 4 hours. Then I tried these flake cuts, but when I rubbed the flakes in my palm, it just made small "balls" of tobacco (due to the rubbing motion of my hand). Was this due to the tobacco was to wet? Also I took one cake slice and grounded the cake with my Shag cutting machine, but it was lite complicate since the cake was too wet for that, and resulted in a acceptable result, but a bit of that tobacco were not stripes, do not know how to explain, but it was what I usually get when I cut my tobacco when it is too wet.
Why do I press a cake? I need it for my hand machine but other than that, does it have something with the flavors? But my most important question: is it legit to cut my cake with my hand-driven shag cutter or do I "have to" make this flakes and rub them out?
P.s

Do I have to hang the leaves or tobacco crumbs up, or can I just put it on some paper and let it dry laying down?
TL;DR: Do I have to make flake cuts and rub them out when making my own cavendish or is it legit to use my hand-driven shag cutting machine to cut the cake? Also, do I need to make a cake at all? And do I have to hang the leaves or tobacco crumbs up, or can I just put it on some paper and let it dry laying down?
I would really appreciate some help with my questions. Tanks!

 

[pagan]

First, yes the baccy is too wet, hanging is the traditional way of drying, the air gets to all sides that way and dries better, finaly it's up to you if you make cake, flake or loose cut, whatever your preference is

 

[jitterbugdude]

You used the wrong method for making Cavendish.

Here's how you do it:

Take your tobacco and moisten it. It only needs to be damp but the moisture level doesn't really matter.

Place as much moist tobacco into a mason jar and seal tight. Place into a pressure cooker and cook at approximately 15 psi for 4 hours. Let cool, remove tobacco from jar. Spread out and let dry. If you had very wet tobacco it'll take a few days to dry. Slightly moist tobacco should dry in a day or so.
If you use flue cured tobacco the final product will come out tasting almost as sweet as candy.

I shred my tobacco before making it in to Cavendish. It is much easier to spread out and dry that way.

Also for a day or two after doing this process the tobacco stinks bad. I do not know why this is but maybe it is something off gassing. I make snus and dip the same way and get the same stink. In a few days the smell is gone.

 

[tmb152]

Also, by hanging to dry, this allows the essential juices of the tobacco to drain down out of the stem and veins into the leaf. So long as there is still juice in them, the leaf will not properly dry. Once dried, then you can remove the stems and larger veins to process.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Place as much moist tobacco into a mason jar and seal tight. Place into a pressure cooker and cook at approximately 15 psi for 4 hours

If sealed tight into Mason jar, what does pressure cooking actually do? (I love physics, and am just trying to understand.)

 

[aldecaker]

I had that same question myself.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

It steams the tobacco with the moisture in the jar, under an intense 15 pounds of pressure. The seal on the jar is nothing in comparison to the pressure that has built up inside the cooker. http://www.thekitchn.com/a-primer-on-pressure-cooking-193715

 

[jitterbugdude]

What Cosmic said... and by raising the pressure to about 15 psi it also raises temp to something like 250F. The higher the temp the more speedily the caramelization (also known as the non-enzymatic browning process) process occurs.

 

[tmb152]

If sealed tight into Mason jar, what does pressure cooking actually do? (I love physics, and am just trying to understand.)

It steams the tobacco with the moisture in the jar, under an intense 15 pounds of pressure.

Glad you asked, JP, I was going to let this one pass, but wondered the same thing myself. For one thing, your tobacco is already under nearly 15 psi pressure just sitting on your kitchen table! If you seal it in a jar INSIDE the pressure cooker, then the only additional pressure the tobacco will see is the pressure of any moisture cooked off as steam from within the tobacco itself inside the jar which is not a whole lot. And the jar might break if more pressure is developed outside the jar than in.
Pressure outside the jar will just force the lid on tighter, but the tobacco might see a lot of heat (250°+), if the cooker has enough water in it.
Seems to me it would be better to just cook the tobacco in the pressure cooker without the jar with just enough water on bottom to provide the heat and pressure (around 30 psi?), with the baccy held on a metal frame above the water. Then the cooker can really do its job--- to subject the tobacco directly to intense heat and steam pressure and force it into the leaves. Done right, this will leave very little excess water below and anything cooked out of the tobacco can be poured back over it once done rather than thrown away, then let sit out to ferment and dry. Now THAT is some damn funky Cavendish!

 

[jitterbugdude]

The tobacco inside the sealed jar IS subject to intense heat and steam. The temp inside the cooker is close to 250 so the temp inside the jar will be similar. Since the tobacco is moist and it is at roughly 250 F it is being steamed at high temp. The only benefit the tobacco gets by the increase in pressure (inside the cooker) is the massive increase in temperature. It is the temperature that drives the process, not pressure.
The pressure cooker I use will hold about 6 quart mason jars. I put about 2 inches of water in it.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

tmb, pressure cooking has been around for a long time. 15 pounds is how we measure the pressure on the jigger. I'm not sure that 15 pounds is the actual pressure. I do know that if a pressure cooker seal fails, that it explodes. The way jitterbug described, is the way that it is done. But, you are welcome to cavendish your own tobacco. In fact it's a little odd to criticize the process of someone who is actually processing their own tobaccos, and has a tried and true product to show for it.
I've seen whole tomatoes ripped out of sealed jars, without loosing the seal or breaking the jars. It is intense pressure, with strange anomalies that happen similar to things you hear about after a tornado.

 

[tmb152]

The temp inside the cooker is close to 250 so the temp inside the jar will be similar. Since the tobacco is moist and it is at roughly 250 F it is being steamed at high temp.

Sure. It will reach the same temp, eventually. As to the steam, yes, if the tobacco contains enough water to develop enough steam pressure. But what if the tobacco is naturally rather dry? As to the temp vs. pressure thing, you have it backwards I'm afraid. The pressure is what drives the process. The pressure is what raises the boiling point from 212° Fahrenheit up to around 250°, and it is the combination of both, the high heat, which begins the caramelization process, combined with the high pressure which forces the moisture and caramelization deep within the tissues to accelerate the cooking process much faster than normal.
But pressure cooked outside a jar, you can do the process more quickly and effectively to a larger quantity more safely. Using a fragile container inside another container makes no sense and only slows and limits the process. I only bring this up since JP rightly asked the question.

The way jitterbug described, is the way that it is done. But, you are welcome to cavendish your own tobacco. In fact it's a little odd to criticize the process of someone who is actually processing their own tobaccos, and has a tried and true product to show for it.

Hi Cosmic, it may be the way it is being done (by some), but that does not necessarily mean it is the ONLY or BEST way. And who ever said I have never made my own? I have stated on maybe ten other posts that I actively process my own tobaccos in many ways into making simulations of commercial products in preparation of reduced or unavailable future stock. Which brings me to yet another motto you remind me of, which I shall post over on the "Motto" thread.

 

[jitterbugdude]

As to the temp vs. pressure thing, you have it backwards I'm afraid

No.. I have it correct.

What is responsible for turning "regular" tobacco in to cavendish? It is temperature.

The high pressure allows the temp to increase but the process of regular tobacco in to cavendish is temperature.

 

[tmb152]

Then you don't need the pressure cooker at all. Every person who bakes a tin of their favorite tobacco in his/her oven is automatically making Cavendish.
So . . . . . just for shits and giggles, I went to the web to see what it had to say, and the first site I found said that it is the steaming in big letters. Sure, the steam is hot, but it is the process of the hot moisture that really cooks and chemically transforms the leaf. Heat alone will just bake it dry; the hot steam breaks down, softens and transform the tissue. The pressure speeds the process.
http://fairtradetobacco.com/threads/637-Making-Black-Cavendish-Pipe-Tobacco

 

[jitterbugdude]

tmb, We are basically saying the same thing. The process that drives making Cavendish is temperature (talking moist leaf here as the constant). You do not need pressure. To make the process more efficient, pressure is required because it raises the temp thus speeding up the caramalization process.

 

[mso489]

I guess you've done it and you know, jittebug, but why doesn't the air in the sealed jar expand with the high heat and blow up inside the pressure cooker? Seems like something has to give? After all, built-up pressure is what drives steam locomotives. I guess there's just not enough air and moisture to expand to that point? Hmmm.

 

[onestrangeone]

@mso, the jars don't actually seal until the cool down.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

The pressure should be the same inside the jar as outside, but yeh, the seal under high pressure is not barrier. We can everything out of the garden and put up approximately 1000 jars a year of meats, veggies, soups, jellies, and preserves. I've seen weird things happen under pressure.

 

[storfiskarn52]

Why would I want to put a jar inside a pressure cooker? Thats sounds really insane and dangerous...

 

[storfiskarn52]

Now I have a bunch of questions! One thing I noticed was my water is getting all black from the water dripping down. Would I like to replace that water or is it fine? Second, I have to ask what happends if I steam it either too short or too long? Like, do the tobacco has a binary state of "now I'm canedished, and can't be more cavendish" or will I it get more and more sweeter and getting more and more receptivity for added falvorings?
A major question I've been thinking alot about is: Is it possible to try the tobacco in a low temp in my oven? If or if not, what would be the result?