Italians vs British, Crack Your Knuckles, Lets Go

[gwtwdbss]

As a novice pipe smoker I hear things like "I have had problems with Italian pipes" and "Buy a Dunhill made before 1960". To me this is a bit conflicting because Dunhill's are supposed to be the best English pipes and "Ya can go wrong with a Sav". On a recent thread I was informed that if you want perfection ya better buy a factory pipe. Obviously the poster never beheld or smoked a quality hand made pipe. Opinion aside, I have never heard of anyone commenting on the decline of Castello quality. Yes, that Ashton controversy. Is it really an Ashton if William Ashton Taylor didn't make it personally?
So here we go, speak your peace and get out as Jerry would say.

 

[gwtwdbss]

I have searched a long time to try and figure out what that LJS actually means. Urrgh
Btw I had to give this Fern a Home on Saturday http://briarblues.com/fg076.htm so I am not biased in the debate.
I want to hear more form people like you that have experience. that is why I started this thread. :D
I am sure others want to learn also.

 

[sasquatch]

Welll.....
Let's examine this on the two principle differences between Italian and English pipes. There are exceptions to everything I'm about to say. But.
Italian pipes use hard (read: no maintenance) lucite/acrylic stems. Some people hate these. English pipe tradition uses vulcanized rubber stems. Easier on teeth, but require polishing lest they turn greeny/grey and taste bad.
English shaping traditions feature smaller and much tighter shaping, by and large. Trying to copy a Dunhill is a lesson in briar removal. Italian pipes are often twice as big in terms of bowl capacity and briar "left on the bone". Thick wood, big bowls. A little more eccentricity in shaping. OKay, a lot.
So... which one is better? For me? Italian. Just bought a Castello and will be selling a vintage Dunhill to do so. There are great pipes and some duds in both camps.

 

[cajundad]

Lots of old puffers tell me that the pre 1968 pipes were the best for dunhills due to the fact they were oil treated and hand made till 1967 . I have quite a few italians , but only 1 1962 dunhill . While in my opinion the dunhills are a collectors pipe , due to the smaller nature and the meer price of them . It is never a good day when you chip or crack a 3-5 hundred dollar dunhill . I do love my dunhill and prob. mostly because of the subcoscious bugs in my ear over the years on how great they are ( the hype lol ) . I also have several Savinelli's , 1 costello , and quite a few various old italian briar pipes . I also have a few old Charatans , and a couple charatan rejects ( london makes ). I have to admit that my favorite smokers between the two are as followed ( based on how many times I grab them off the rack ) 1) costello 2) charatan reject 3) Newly aquired ser jacopo 4) savinelli 5)charatans make 6) dunhill 1962 ( prob. because its new to me and I only have one lol . I have to honestly say its a slight edge to the italian makes . More durable IMHO , easier to replace .

 

[puffy]

I've smoked pipes made in several different countries.Some of them smoked great,Some smoked good,and some not so good.I think that high grade pipes probably are more likely to have the same smoking qualitys no matter where they are made.In lesser expensive pipes I've had good luck with Italian pipes.Some folks like Peterson some like Stanwell.I guess I'm saying that how a pipe is made and the quality of the briar it's made from is more important than where it's made.

 

[cajundad]

+1 , and I agree rothnh . I really believe that the old craftsman were more selective with briar quality .

Savienlli Giubileo d'Oro !!!!(in a box of pipes in storage somewhere) ! LOL if I had one I would know the exact location ,if its a 624 wow . LMAO , Im in my mid 30's and im always like WTF , but I want so many pipes and guitars that I have to be careful or else the kids will be barefooted . hehe . Not many dunnies can hold a candle to those either . And I wouldnt be smoking that one in public . I would have to sit in my smoke spot at home and baby it, like some of my old trasures . You got to post a pic of it soon .

 

[tbradsim1]

I have had better luck with older Italian pipes, looking at the big picture for me they smoke better. The old cajun

 

[eaglerico]

For me personally I am just attracted to the more eccentric shapes and meatier pipes. I have 7 Savinellis. 3 of them are autographs. (I got all 3 for under a $100 a piece.) I am just not attracted to the classic shapes and designs of Dunhill's and other historical English brands. I think also, for me at least, it is easier to access at least some of the qualities of the higher end Italian pipes.
To use the same analogy as in another thread. If I want a Porsche, I can buy an older Porsche for way less money then one goes for new and test the waters to see if it is something I really want to spend the money on a newer one. If I want a Rolls Royce I have to wait until I can afford it and I hope I like it. The same analogy as to looks works here as well.
Of course all of this in generalizing to the highest degree.

 

[judcole]

It's all a matter of personal taste.

 

[seakayak]

Italy has given us so many very nice pipes at a reasonable price point that I would tend toward that country's pipes over the Britts. Brebbia, Ser Jacopo, Savinelli...they even sound beautiful. In England, the Charatan collectors have been in a verbal war with the Dunhill people for much of the past century. These are also fine pipes, but generally come at a higher cost. Check out a few estates in good condition and get started spouting your own biases. It's a central part of the brotherhood experience. Happy puffing.

 

[irishsmoker]

I find that everything Italian such as , pipes, bicycles, ect.... Must look absolutely beautiful and work flawlessly!

 

[dpkrause]

I own 3 Radice pipes and 2 Moretti pipes, I couldn't be happier with them. So put me down for the Italian school for no other reason than I like the way they look.

 

[foggymountain]

I will preface this remark by saying I love Italians, especially the women. But I have never had an Italian pipe which I liked or even kept. I only tried a few brands: Brebbia, Stanwell, Cavicchi. It is not fair to draw conclusions from 3 brands, but with the 100% failure of the brands I did try, I am in no mood for more financial losses. The Brebbia smoked the best of the three, but it was varnished, & who know with what & whether it was even carcinogenically safe to smoke. The Stanwells were very poor. The Cavicchi was masterfully carved and beautifully shaped, but the taste of the stain was an abomination. So the English win. Despite what you hear, Dunhills are as good to smoke as ever. In fact they taste the same as Dunhills 50 years ago. I haven't had other English pipes except a few Charatans in the 1950s, which were very well made, but it took a while before the stain tasted ok.

 

[captainsousie]

Roth, he didn't say how long they had to work flawlessly. A great Italian car, like an Alpha, will be amazing and flawless when it works. The fact it only works for 5 minutes at a time is just part of the "soul".

 

[cigrmaster]

I have gone through my Italian and English pipe collecting stages and in my opinion both smoke very well. The Italian pipes I have owned were Castello's, Radice's, Ser Jacobo's, Savinelli's, Mastro De Paja's, Viprati's, Spanu,Ardor and Caminetto. The English pipes I have owned are Upshall"s,Ashton, Willmer's, Ferndown's, Dunhill's, Lane Era Charatan's, Sasieni, Astley and GBD.
I currently own 2 Savinelli's, 1 Ardor, 1 Mastro and two 70's Caminetto's for the Italians left in my collection. Of the British, 2 Ferndowns, 2 Upshall's, 1 Ashton, 3 Lane Era Charatan's, 2 Willlmer's, 1 Dunhill and 1 Dunhill made Astley. Now all of these pipes still in my collection are all good smokers, but none of them are in the same league as my American artisan pipes. All of my American pipes smoke drier and are much more comfortable due to the hand cut Vulcanite stems. I have plenty of Vulcanite stems on my British pipes, but they are not as comfortable as my American ones. My Italian pipes all have acrylic and I do not like them nearly as much. I am slowly selling off many of my Italian and British pipes because I love my American Artisan pipes better, it does not make me right or wrong, it is just what I prefer. I will be keeping my Upshalls, Ferndowns, Ashton and one Lane Era Charatan. I will be selling one of my Savinelli's and both Caminettos. The one Sav I am keeping is my first pipe so that stays even though it hardly gets smoked.
It all comes down to personal preference, I do not think anyone can say that one country makes better pipes than another. Some people love acrylic stems and hate vulcanite, some people love classic shapes and abhor anything different. I am at the stage where I know exactly what I want in a pipe i.e size, shape, stems, makers. It has taken me years to get to this point and that is the cool thing about the journey, tastes change over time and with the plethora of makers out there, we all can keep buying different pipes as our tastes evolve. I went through a stage where I was collecting Dansish carvers and had fun doing that, but decided I didn't want to collect them anymore. No one can tell another what to smoke or what to buy or what is better or what is worse. Everyone's opinions are valid and as long as you recognize I am right, you will all be better off. :nana:

 

[colesradioactive]

Lmao cigrmaster!

 

[ssjones]

I own a number of British made pipes and the majority of my collection is from those makers (Ashton new & old, GBD, Upshall, Ferndown, Comoys, Charatan). I have two Castello's and they are wonderful smokers, but most of the time I desire a vulcanite stem. I've owned Cavicchi, Dunhill('02) and a Rad Davis and I'm no hurry to acquire any more of these makers. So, for myself it comes down to shape (I like the classic shapes) and stem material and the British makers seem to satisfy those requirements most of the time. I own a classic British car and motorcyles, so I may be a little biased in that regard...

 

[tarheel1]

I know its an old thread, but I was thinking about this today. I keep looking at a a Ser Jacopo pipe and can never seem to pull the trigger. Whenever I get close a British pipe pops up and I wind up buying that. Think I have had an eye on it for about a year.
Oh and Les says L&jS stands for Les and John silversmith. His middle name is John. Les John Wood. His wifes name is Dolly for the Record. It is a joint effort between the two to make the pipes.

 

[lasttango]

I love Italian PIpes. Italians are some of the greatest Artisans in the world with glass, leather, paper products, writing implements, jewelry, shoes, fashion, cars and yes, pipes! Is Italy not the birthplace of mercantilism? (Or would you argue Britain)?
I love Il Duca, Cavicchi, Jacano, Ser J, and many more. Have you seen the incredible artistry and quality of Mimmo Provenzano? They are actually affordable.

Castellos? Brilliant.
Italian pipes should be had by all. I really want a nice Hawkbill.
British pipes are a necessity also as far as I am concerned. The Billiard, the (Charatan) Skater, Lovat, Bulldog, Rhodesian and the Apple. Get your Ferndown now, because they are disappearing quickly. Not just classic pipes, but perfect smoking instruments. If you've never had one, Ashton's have this "new pipe smell/new pipe taste" that I just can't get enough of.
In any case, no argument from me. I want both.
With that said, the last three pipes I have bought are German/Austrian. These guys really went to math class. Talk about perfect balance and perfect airways and perfect fit and finish. The people who brought us Mozart, Beethoven, The Bauhaus School, The Frankfurt School for Social Research, Freud, Herbert Marcuse, Christopher Waltz, Wim Wenders, the Audi, Mercedes, BMW, Puma Knives and Ulrich Roth make great pipes!
I could use another 6 Bertram Safferlings in my collection right now. (I know, he moved to Italy).
American pipes are also high on my radar. There are so many gifted pipe makers here. Someone, please get me an Andrew Marks pipe.
Danish Pipes, Czech pipes, French Pipes, Russian Pipes, Turkish Meers, Grecian pipes, Japanese Pipes, Irish Pipes, Spanish Pipes. Are there pipes from Luxembourg or Canada? I want them all.
So, pull the trigger on the Ser Jacapo. You'll love it.

 

[lohengrin]

Lasttango, I like your enthusiasm. You are a real pipe lover!