Is this an early Louis Orlik cased briar?

[osiris01]

G'day all.
Before I launch into an interminably long load of waffle, I'll post the pics. When I first saw this pipe on ebay, there was just something about it that was calling out for me to buy it. The case branding and stamping was familiar, but I couldn't place it - the only pipe maker I could think of with L.O. initials was Louis Orlik. I researched this for almost 5 days, and I think it is a Louis Orlik solo pipe (not the normal L&A Orlik - but one made outside the collaboration with Alfred).

I tried searching the pipe stamp, but came up with nothing. I checked the silver mark directories for an L.O. in an oval and found an obscure reference to Louis Orlik listed as a tobacconist, which gave me hope. But I couldn't find any example of a pipe stamped L.O.
As a last resort, I searched pipe cases for the same branding sticker, and found this on an Orlik:

But no L.O. stamp on the pipe. So I searched for Orlik Meers and finally found this, dated to 1908:

This pipe had an Orlik stamp on the gourd in script. Not L.O., but the same branding on the case and on the silver work. It's not conclusive, but it is the same case stamp and silver mark, so I'm fairly confident this is an Orlik. However, I have not found any example of a pipe stamped L.O.
So, I was wondering if any of you good people have seen this before or can shed some light/opinions on this for me. Louis Orlik created L. Orlik ltd in 1899 and teamed up with brother Alfred in 1907/8. So I'm guessing that either this pipe was created between these dates, or Louis still maintained his solo enterprise after L&A Orlik was formed (which would seem a little odd - I'm not sure how happy Alfred would be).
But can this pipe be that old? It's a beautifully crafted pipe, practically unsmoked, and the right size and shape for an early pipe. There are no other stamps on the pipe. I'm assuming the pipe belongs to the case since both share the same stamps and the fit is perfect. The case looks like it could be snake skin and I have no idea when briars stopped being cased. The slot is lozenge shaped and the stem is extremely well fitted in the mortise and I'm inclined to think that the stem is the original.
The problem is the history is so patchy for this period, and I'd be eternally grateful for any thoughts on this - I have very little experience with pipes this old and I have found no frame of reference. 1900 is a heck of a long time ago, but would Louis make pipes stamped with his mark after L&A Orlik was formed? I've found no other examples.
Any ideas anyone?
Many thanks folks.
Geoff

 

[osiris01]

Some close-ups of the bit and tenon. It's not a great photo of the tenon, but it's actually very nicely made. The slot is a lozenge but looks like it wants to be slightly semi-orific when it grows up.

 

[sablebrush52]

Yes, It's Louis Orlik
http://www.silvercollection.it/DICTIONARYTOBACCONISTL.html

 

[osiris01]

Thanks Sablebrush. The date is interesting, 1921. I don't know much about assay offices, but I'm guessing that the date refers to the registration date. So he was producing pipes in his own name - I wonder what the story is there. But, thinking about it, the L.O. stamp on the meerschaum was dated to 1908, so he was stamping his silver before 1921. I'll have to swat up on assay procedures, but the 20s/30s seems a more realistic date for the pipe. Although I'm surprised that such a modest pipe was still cased in that period.
The Pipedia page shows a 1908 meerschaum with the L&AO stamp so it seems that the different stamps were used interchangeably (unless the 1908 pipe I've seen was dated incorrectly, of course). There's more digging to do, but at least I know I'm heading in the right direction.
Many thanks,
Geoff

 

[osiris01]

Just to follow on from that, I've gone over my notes and images and the '1908' meerschaum with the L.O stamp, doesn't look hallmarked, just stamped 'Sterling', so presumably he wouldn't have needed to send it away to an assay office.
Which begs the question of how it has been dated so accurately. I don't have the full image so perhaps it had additional silver accoutrements. It's somewhat unlikely anyone remembers buying it!

 

[sablebrush52]

The Pipedia page shows a 1908 meerschaum with the L&AO stamp so it seems that the different stamps were used interchangeably (unless the 1908 pipe I've seen was dated incorrectly, of course).

The L&AO stamp was for Louis & Alfred Orlik who were listed as tobacconists, trading as L&A Orlik. Perhaps Alfred left the business. Jon Guss might be able to shed some light on this. I don't know anything about their history.

 

[osiris01]

Thanks Sablebrush. From what I gather, Alfred joined his brother around 1908 and went to the States to run the import side of things. When I referred to the stamps being used interchangeably, perhaps I should have said concurrently; Peterson's seemed to use the closest stamp to hand at times, and if there was a reason, it is now lost. But equally, there may have been a sound reason. The following image is an invoice from Alfred Orlik Inc, dated 1929, so I suspect he was still around. I 'borrowed' it from a current ebay listing. It is quite interesting so I thought I'd post it (I'm not a lawyer, btw), but on the right, it lists that he was responsible for importing Orlik 'London Made' briars. It's trying to tell me something - I just can't see it. However, this pipe is not 'London Made' and I guess it wasn't intended for export. It is tempting to conclude that L.O. branded pipes were for the domestic market only, but I think there's a whole lot more to it than that. Apart from anything else, it's the first L.O. briar pipe I've ever seen and I must have looked at 1000s of images over the last week.
Hopefully Jon Guss will look in. But I bought it so I could research it's history, but I'm going nowhere fast. It would definitely be nice to know more about their business model etc., and when abouts this pipe was made. To me, the stem looks no older than 20s/30s, but I don't know a whole lot about pipes of that era, so at the moment, that's my best guess, but it would be great to hear opinions from people who do have that sort of knowledge.
Thanks again.

 

[osiris01]

$10 for 2 dozen. I could probably stretch to a couple.

 

[sablebrush52]

Very cool to see that invoice. It kind of ties in with the change of stamps if Alfred set up his own operation in the US. Note the invoice isn't from Louis & Alfred Orlik.
I agree with you that the stem looks later than the early '20's. I've always like the longer stem length that many pipes have from this era. Orific bits were in use until the late 1920's and then pretty much fell out of fashion. But semi-orific bits had been around since at least the turn of the century and likely well before. I have a Barling gourd calabash, hallmarked to 1908, that features a semi-orific bit, and have seen them on pipes hallmarked as early as 1901.
I don't know if anyone has noticed how many calabashes survive from circa 1908 to circa 1912, and so few from other periods. Must have been a craze.
Regarding your remark about cased pipes, cased pipes were available well into the 20th century. With Barling, you could order a case made for your pipe if it didn't come with one.

 

[osiris01]

It is marvelous, and I was (still am) sorely tempted. Unfortunately, it's in the States and the $16 shipping is a bit rum and takes the shine off a little. Still, wonderful thing to have if you're a pipe historian/Orlik fan. For anyone whose interested, the item number is: 263479544651.
It's an odd bit - you can't really see in the image, but it has a very slight curve to the edges, not semi but not quite lozenge either. I would have put it down to harsh pipe cleaners, but the pipe has hardly been used. I asked the seller if she knew anything about its origins, but all she could manage was that it was found in a barn in Ripley (I've no idea either). I guess I just assumed that the move from orific to slot was more of an evolutionary process with semi filling the gap between. Very useful to know.
You're absolutely right about calabashes - I've been sifting through Google images for calabash cases, and practically all the dated ones are from that very short period. In fact, many of the Orlik calabashes were made in Austria. Another Orlik brother, who didn't emigrate (at least, I think not), was also involved in the business somewhere along the lines, and was possibly responsible for importing them to the UK.
I didn't know that about cases. I have a Harrod's catalogue from 1895 (not original, alas) where you could buy your GBDs with or without cases, but I had assumed that the price of the cases for briar pipes became too high. This case looks like snake skin (certainly no expert) is extremely well made. Both hinges and the latch are still working, which has probably more to do with how often it was opened, but the pipe is still a budget pipe. I would imagine that if you bought the equivalent today, the case would cost more than the pipe.

 

[sablebrush52]

Cases were typically covered in either crocodile or calfskin. This one sounds like crocodile. I'll take a look at the listing.
The top tier makers of this period typically offered custom services to their clientele, casing, special order metal work, even carving to a customer's desires.

 

[condorlover1]

Not to go off topic or anything but I went for a little wander on Oi Vay (Ebay) and I was amazed at what shows up on the cased pipe section including this one from my favorite pipe shop sadly no longer with us
https://www.ebay.com/itm/ENGLISH-ESTATE-PIPE-I-Co-INDERWICK-SEVEN-DAY-CASED-SET-w-HORN-STEMS-1893/372388033745?hash=item56b40e74d1
I should point out this listing is nothing to do with me and anyone who knows me would know that I wouldn't been seen dead with a wooden pipe but just seeing an Inderwick pipe set for sale is amazing as I remember them in the display cases back in the day when I would wander in to buy plug or twist if I couldn't be bothered to go to my usual tobacconist on Charing Cross Road who I maintained an account with in my over spending youth!

 

[osiris01]

I've never seen a cow with scales, so I'm going with the croc.
I'm too young to remember 'proper' tobacconists, but even people like G W Simms, who very modestly described themselves as 'tobacconists' would make custom pipes for clients, normally charging no more for them as for the pre-mades (well, perhaps). And this was in the 70s. Nowadays, only cities have tobacconists and they'd look at you as if you've just crapped a dead cat if you were to ask them to make you a pipe.
And they say "You can't really miss what you never had". Hey-ho.

 

[osiris01]

Sorry Condorlover, we crossed.
It really is a beaut.
And we were reminiscing of the same thing at the same time. That's got something to do with quantum physics, hasn't it,

 

[condorlover1]

Time travel maybe? Lol

 

[osiris01]

Well, technically, I wasn't reminiscing since I wasn't born. I was creating this perfect idyll in my head that had no basis in reality. I think people call that a dream or delusion, but it still sounds quantum.

 

[ssjones]

That was a great find! Hopefully Jon does chime in. 101W 37th street is smack dab in the Garment district in Manhattan.
The Frankle Brothers looked to have a pretty successful tobacco business in Youngstown, Ohio.

 

[pepesdad1]

Beautiful pipe.

 

[woodsroad]

What a great find. Congrats!

 

[jguss]

Hi Geoff,
Great pipe. As Jesse said, it's unquestionably an Orlik, and I believe it dates from the mid to late twenties. I'm sorry I don't have time to dig into this thoroughly right now, but I can tell you a few pertinent things right off the bat.
In the first place, the partnership between Louis and his younger brother Alfred lasted from about 1904-1919 (as late as 1903 the London phone directory listed the business under "Louis Orlik"; from 1904-1919 it was listed under "L&A Orlik"; and from 1920 on it was listed under "L Orlik"). Alfred, by the way, was in NY as early as March of 1904, and became a naturalized US citizen in 1918. Although I suspect his original role was to represent the pipe business, Alfred established himself as an importer and exporter of smoker's articles, and, eventually, gifts and tchotchkes of a fairly classy kind. I suspect, but can't prove, that Alfred's decision to stay permanently in the States led to an agreement where he surrendered whatever interest he had in the pipe company, and received exclusive distribution rights for America. The invoice demonstrates his continued role as US agent for his brother's pipes. The brothers did fall out, however, and if you scour the internet you can see bits and pieces of the dispute even today.
From here it gets a little confusing. I suspect that the 1921 registration date is indeed indicative of the introduction of the "LO" stamp. In the first place it makes sense, given that Alfred's name was still on the business through 1919, that LO couldn't have been introduced before 1920 at the earliest. In the second place, the first material I have that shows a pipe stamped LO is in the company's 1922 catalog. From that time on LO pipes are included in each catalog through the 1930 edition. They're missing from the 1933 catalog, although whether that means they were dropped from the line or merely deemphasized is unclear; I would guess the former. But in any case the question remains: what exactly did the company mean when it used LO instead of Orlik on its briar and cases?
To be honest the evidence is sparse, but on balance suggests that the LO was a downmarket version of a few of the popular Orlik models. From what I can tell the LO designation was used largely for the De Luxe and Special models, which were available in both LO and Orlik stamps. In 1928 the Orlik stamped versions cost more: 8/- per pipe for cased samples of the De Luxe, versus 60/- per dozen (or 5/- each) for the LO version. Two years later, in the catalog of 1930, the gap remained: a cased Orlik De Luxe cost 12/- each while a cased LO De Luxe went for 90/- per dozen (or about 7 1/2 half shillings each). The qualitative words used to describe the LO's suggest that this price differential was a reflection of the pipe: "good quality" vs "finest quality"; placed in "leather cases" vs "London Made Cases". And for a company that always placed the highest priced pipes in the front of the catalog, it's telling that the LO pipes appeared towards the back.
None of which is conclusive, but it is, I think, indicative of the place the LO pipes held in the Orlik line.
By the way, personally I'm skeptical that the meerschaum you posted an image of really dates from 1908. I'd want to see the hallmarks before I believed it. Given that the pipe was produced in the middle of the "L&A" era it seems improbable that a "LO" stamp would have been created and employed at that time. But of course that's just opinion.
One more "by the way": the continuing link between the Orlik brothers and their country of origin is another story for another time. As a minor example both Louis (whose real name was Alois) and Alfred went home to Austria when it came time to find a wife.
In any case it's a beautiful pipe and I thank you for sharing it. I hope it gives you many years of pleasure.
Best regards,

Jon