Would love to know which of the Peterson Grades are devoid of any fills.
Cheers,
Chris :puffpipe:
Cheers,
Chris :puffpipe:
Information on Peterson Grades
- Thread starter disinformatique
- Start date
SmokingPipes.com Updates
Watch for Updates Twice a Week
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
Site Sponsors
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
- Status
Fills are an interesting subject in itself. I've seen estimates that suggest that something in the order of 5% of the stummels turned are fault free. Reworking in the shop can eliminate some of those issues (Sable has commented on Barling doing just that). But even as early as the 1920's GBD was reporting about 30-35% true premium stummels from their production facilities. So all that digested you can conclude that there could be no more than a third of the pipes offered are fill free, as a maximum, and probably considerably less than that in reality. What I have seen written is that Peterson grades the stummels received and assigns them to the appropriate ranges. The best stummels going to the highest grades and the worst being designated as rusticated or sandblasted where those flaws become essentially undetectable. I have never seen anything written where Peterson guaranteed a range as fill free but that doesn't mean they haven't done so. I doubt you would find a fill in a Supreme. In most of their ranges Peterson uses the same sets of shapes. That allows the sorting process be an efficient method of grading. I'd agree with Tarheel the higher grades get the best stummels. Where the "fill free zone" starts I can't say.
I was told by a Peterson employee that it was North of $200, but even some of those may have tiny, hopefully undetectable fills. If you go way North, no fills, but he wasn't able to put an exact dollar amount on it.
'can't speak for him, of course, but foggy' has reported fills in some of the high end Petersons so has sworn off them. If I recall, he used to have quite a few, now mostly Dunhills, and only specific series in those.
I have a number of what I think of as mid-grade Petes, and a few low-enders, and I have yet to spot a fill, so I've been lucky. Some of these are years old, so I think fills would have surfaced. They may have some, but they were done properly and don't show at all.
I have a number of what I think of as mid-grade Petes, and a few low-enders, and I have yet to spot a fill, so I've been lucky. Some of these are years old, so I think fills would have surfaced. They may have some, but they were done properly and don't show at all.
@Tarheel Of course its what is advertised, I dont want to commit to a $300-500 Peterson if it has an inclusion filled. That being said, I totally love the Rosslare, Kapp Royal and other series.
@Dutch is there any order to the grades with Supreme being on top? What is the 2nd highest or 3rd highest grade? I would really appreciate some information on that. With sandblasts thee arent any issue as the inclusions are blasted away for the texture.
@jpm Ive seen $200+ Peterson with fills and that keeps me away from the smooth ones as I am in India and cannot inspect the pipe personally. Also a big reason I keep stopping myself from importing them to India for my shop.
@mso Thats awesome, Ive only had 1 Peterson smooth and it was the entry level Aran 150, no fills though. I can imagine how painful it must've been for Froggy, paying top penny and getting a filled pipe. I personally dont mind inclusions or fills but if I am committing $500 to a high grade pipe I expect it to be inclusion/fill free.
Cheers,
Chris :puffpipe:
@Dutch is there any order to the grades with Supreme being on top? What is the 2nd highest or 3rd highest grade? I would really appreciate some information on that. With sandblasts thee arent any issue as the inclusions are blasted away for the texture.
@jpm Ive seen $200+ Peterson with fills and that keeps me away from the smooth ones as I am in India and cannot inspect the pipe personally. Also a big reason I keep stopping myself from importing them to India for my shop.
@mso Thats awesome, Ive only had 1 Peterson smooth and it was the entry level Aran 150, no fills though. I can imagine how painful it must've been for Froggy, paying top penny and getting a filled pipe. I personally dont mind inclusions or fills but if I am committing $500 to a high grade pipe I expect it to be inclusion/fill free.
Cheers,
Chris :puffpipe:
I did a little research and based on Peterson lines offered for sale based on pricing got the following results;
Based on retail pricing (as advertised) the order would seem as follows;
(All lines available above the $200 range)
Spigot (Smooth – Walnut) $204
Premier System $208
Sherlock Homes (Smooth) $236
Grafton $252
Royal Irish $292
Silver Cap $328
(No listing for Supreme)
(All above as listed for sale @ smokingpipes.com)
Based on retail pricing (as advertised) the order would seem as follows;
(All lines available above the $200 range)
Spigot (Smooth – Walnut) $204
Premier System $208
Sherlock Homes (Smooth) $236
Grafton $252
Royal Irish $292
Silver Cap $328
(No listing for Supreme)
(All above as listed for sale @ smokingpipes.com)
Jim Lilley's article on Pipepedia has a "High Grades" section, which really isn't very clear. (ie: A Supreme is pictured, but the line is not mentioned). When I did some research on my recent Supreme purchase, not much was available. I mentioned this to Mark Irwin. He promises to expound on the various grades in his upcoming Peterson book.
http://pipedia.org/wiki/Peterson#Group_2.2C_High_grades
http://pipedia.org/wiki/Peterson#Group_2.2C_High_grades
I remember years ago(2000?)at a Chicago Pipe Show Tom Palmer hosted a discussion group that I sat in on. He started with the usual we only use the finest blah blah blah spiel. A group of very angry collectors who had found fills in the high end lines confronted him about it and he ended up having to admit Peterson was never going to be able to guarantee clean wood. 8O
@Gloucesterman Thanks Dutch, also check out the link by AL, the Grade 1 Petersons are Suhweeet !!
@ssjones Al woah !! gotta love me some Straight Grain Gold Supreme
All the Peterson series pale compared to the Grade 1
@dave That sucks if they can't even guarantee on their high-end series. No matter what we say about Dunhill, we still havent found a fill on them.
Chris
@ssjones Al woah !! gotta love me some Straight Grain Gold Supreme
All the Peterson series pale compared to the Grade 1 @dave That sucks if they can't even guarantee on their high-end series. No matter what we say about Dunhill, we still havent found a fill on them.
Chris
@ThePipeMonk - I'm not a big fan of the Gold Band Supreme pipes, a bit too gaudy for my conservative taste. Most Supreme's do seem to have gold bands.
Here's an interesting piece, a "Hand Made" freehand pipe. Jim Lilley mentions these in his Pipepedia article (like me, he's not a fan of the freehand style). One has been on Ebay recently, with no takers at $485.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151646265582?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Here's an interesting piece, a "Hand Made" freehand pipe. Jim Lilley mentions these in his Pipepedia article (like me, he's not a fan of the freehand style). One has been on Ebay recently, with no takers at $485.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/151646265582?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
@ssjones Some interesting pipes from Pipe Stud right now. I do prefer silver bands over gold but if the gold is muted down and not "shiny" it adds a little boost to the ego , somehow the Peterson freehands dont appeal to me which is surprising as I am a big fan of Danish freehands.
Peterson 80S Supreme
Peterson Straight Grain Bulldog
Cheers,
Chris :puffpipe:
, somehow the Peterson freehands dont appeal to me which is surprising as I am a big fan of Danish freehands. Peterson 80S Supreme
Peterson Straight Grain Bulldog
Cheers,
Chris :puffpipe:
What is also interesting (and confusing I guess) is that Peterson's do have grades within grades.
For example, you can see from Jim's blog that he classifies the The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes pipes in his "Group 3" - high likelihood of fills for sure. But, the smooth pipes came in three finishes - Dark Walnut, Red Spray and Natural I think - with the Natural being of high grade. The Natural finish pipe will be fill free and more in line with the Straight Grains or Supremes.
This can be seen across all of the Year Pipes, Collections and Limited edition pipes (Including the Founders Edition POY from 2015).
For example, you can see from Jim's blog that he classifies the The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes pipes in his "Group 3" - high likelihood of fills for sure. But, the smooth pipes came in three finishes - Dark Walnut, Red Spray and Natural I think - with the Natural being of high grade. The Natural finish pipe will be fill free and more in line with the Straight Grains or Supremes.
This can be seen across all of the Year Pipes, Collections and Limited edition pipes (Including the Founders Edition POY from 2015).
Someone needs to reign in Tom Palmer, there are way too many series and way too many grades for Peterson Pipes!!
Chris :puffpipe:
Chris :puffpipe:
In some ways I agree and some not Pipe Monk.
As a Peterson collector and smoker, I really don't have a problem with their "grades" (or an official lack there of in the case of Peterson's). To me, the grade does not necessarily predict the collectability or appeal of a pipe. I guess what I am saying is, grade/fills/whatever, not an issue for me - the pipe is either worth what I paid (in my own mind) or it is not. Sometimes I think I prefer flaws - perfect pipes make it really hard for me to put that first match to it, if you know what I mean.
The never-ending line of limited edition this, limited edition that, "collector" pipes, etc. really does bug me though. Personally, I am not a big fan of these so-called "collectible" pipes. Many of them are really nothing more than classic Peterson shapes, already available in other lines, that are changed slightly (finish, band color, whatever) and stuck out there as limited edition. No thanks...
Besides, any time the manufacturer calls anything "collectible" you can be darn near certain that it won't be
As a Peterson collector and smoker, I really don't have a problem with their "grades" (or an official lack there of in the case of Peterson's). To me, the grade does not necessarily predict the collectability or appeal of a pipe. I guess what I am saying is, grade/fills/whatever, not an issue for me - the pipe is either worth what I paid (in my own mind) or it is not. Sometimes I think I prefer flaws - perfect pipes make it really hard for me to put that first match to it, if you know what I mean.
The never-ending line of limited edition this, limited edition that, "collector" pipes, etc. really does bug me though. Personally, I am not a big fan of these so-called "collectible" pipes. Many of them are really nothing more than classic Peterson shapes, already available in other lines, that are changed slightly (finish, band color, whatever) and stuck out there as limited edition. No thanks...
Besides, any time the manufacturer calls anything "collectible" you can be darn near certain that it won't be
@rblood I agree with you on all points. The only Petersons I collect are their Christmas Pipes. Rest depends on my taste. The only thing is if I am paying $300-$400 for a high grade Peterson I expect it to be atleast devoid of any fills. It's the same price range as some of the Dunhills and I still have to see a Dunhill with a fill (I maybe wrong, just saying it based on my experience)
Not saying that all Petersons have fills, but there is a possibility of even a high grade having one and that bugs me. I am a BIG lover of Petersons, they are muscular, masculine and very unique.
I am actually quite irritated at every company/brand even some Indies stamping everything as Collectible or Limited Edition that theres no point in having them. Even Dunhill these days is like that.
Cheers,
Chris
Not saying that all Petersons have fills, but there is a possibility of even a high grade having one and that bugs me. I am a BIG lover of Petersons, they are muscular, masculine and very unique.
I am actually quite irritated at every company/brand even some Indies stamping everything as Collectible or Limited Edition that theres no point in having them. Even Dunhill these days is like that.
Cheers,
Chris
- Status