Imperial "Two Point" Pipe Set - Anyone?

[ssjones]

My buddy Dave just picked up this set, but we find nothing about this brand. We assume it is a Loewe second.
I checked with Mike L (Cake&Dottle) and he had not seen this brand before. He did add:

I see the Cadogan printed on the satin, post 1967 pre1974

it was right after Cadogan acquired the Civic properties but before what we consider the Cadogan era

 

[philobeddoe]

Lopes book mentions Imperial, but not specifically Two-Point. Who Made That Pipe says that Imperial Two-Point were from Civic Co./Imperial Tobacco Co. England.. Wish I could be more help, but I'll keep looking.

 

[jguss]

Al,
I can tell you a little bit. I think the Imperial Two Point series was introduced about 1938; at any rate that's the first year it's in the trade price lists, and in the trade brand directory. It continues to be listed in the brand directories through 1962, although when it actually was withdrawn from production is unclear to me.
Price-wise, in the early years it was a notch down from the Imperial Royale and the Super Imperial, let alone the Imperial de-Luxe. It was on par with the Imperial Old Bruyere and Imperial Old Bruyere Sangrain series. In point of fact the Two Point was initially likewise listed in the trade price lists as a sub-model of the Imperial Old Bruyere. Other such sub-models included the Imperial Old Bruyere Hard Grip series, and the Imperial Old Bruyere Windjammer. Around 1949 the "Old Bruyere" part was apparently dropped from the name, and it became just the Imperial Two Point. Price lists can be chancy, and to verify this relatively obscure point I'd need to refresh my memory on what contemporary advertisements said from the late thirties on.
In any case, as a selling point the Two Point series was originally advertised as having a "Special Lip and unbreakable Push".
It's probably worth noting in passing that in general the Imperial pipes were priced substantially less than the Civic ones; still cheaper were a variety of pipes offered without either the Civic or Imperial name.
Jon

 

[buroak]

I need to check some boxes in my collection, but I believe I may have some information.
Edit: I highly doubt I can add value beyond jguss's post.

 

[jensen]

I just sent 2 photos from the first post war Civic catalog to Al. The madam was angry this morning as we are going to

get on the train,so she only made two.
I have an Imperial Treble and an Imperial Selected - nice,but cheaper end pipes.

Jørgen

 

[jguss]

I've found a trade advertisement in my records describing the Two Point as "quite new" in the Spring of 1936. I think that dates the introduction pretty narrowly.
The ad also makes it clear that the Two Point began life as a sub-model of the Old Bruyere line, with the ad copy calling it "The Latest Addition to the Family of the Famous Imperial Old Bruyere".
The copy claims it "smokes as dry as the desert", and includes a closeup of the stem, highlighting the "unbreakable push" and "special lip for ease & comfort". Presumably those are the "two points".
I've also found references to the Two Point being for sale as late as ~1965 but so far nothing post-dating that year. I suspect that's just a data issue, but if Jorgen has Civic catalogs from the late sixties or beyond he might be able to settle that point for you.
Jon

 

[ssjones]

Awesome as always Jon, my buddy will be thrilled. I guess that Mike's assertion that they were made between 67-74 because of the Cadogan name on the silk still holds up?

 

[ssjones]

Jensen sent me two pages:

 

[jguss]

Al,
Not positive about the dating of the case. I probably have enough threads somewhere to tease it out, but Civic hasn't been a priority for me. Mike may well be right, I just can't verify it. If you want to post additional pics of the writing on the case and the pipe nomenclature I'll be glad to give it a try when I can.
In the meanwhile, what I can tell you is that it's a misconception to think that Cadogan "acquired the Civic properties" that late. Cadogan was formed in a series of related transactions that occurred from late July 1928 through late February 1929, in which the owners of the equity of the various pipe manufacturers involved contributed their stock in exchange for various combinations of Preferred and/or Ordinary (A & B) shares in the new entity. This is the heart of what people mean when they refer to "the merger". Civic was kicked into the general pot at that time by Montagu Salmon (representing the Salmon and Gluckstein families etc), along with their equity in Loewe and La Bruyere.
The why, how and who of the merger would take a long time to unravel, as would the question of when and why they eventually became integrated.
Jon

 

[ssjones]

Jon also sent me the page the trade catalog used for his assessment.

Thanks guys!

 

[mso489]

Great set. Amazing the knowledge that emerges from this post.

 

[beefeater33]

Timely Post--- I just received a sweet little unsmoked Imperial Two Point Bulldog....... pic's coming soon...

 

[ssjones]

Here's some detail nomenclature shots. I asked Dave if the "special lip" was a twin-bore, I assume it is.

Oddly, there are two different COM's.

 

[snagstangl]

The 1939 catalog uses the heading on the two point page of "A Now Firmly Established Favorite" hinting at an earlier release date.

 

[beefeater33]

Here's my one and only Two Point.

I asked Dave if the "special lip" was a twin-bore, I assume it is.

The lip is a bit odd........ not a twin bore, but more like a Peterson P-lip, with a slot instead of a round hole......... Interesting.

 

[jensen]

Yes,yes beefeater..........." special lip for ease & comfort"

fine,fine and a fine pipe !
Jørgen

 

[ssjones]

Wow, I really like the look of that button, wholly unique.

 

[dmcmtk]

Some display materials for Civic/Imperial that were sold on ebay, dating from 1930's~1940's. You can see the Two Point at the lower left at 2'6.

I came across these images quite by chance after buying an Old Bruyere in Feb. '16.

That Two Point button is pretty cool!

 

[jensen]

Thanks for this tread.It is like going back in time.I enjoy it.

In my younger days there were still tobacconists in every town,

we miss them.