How to Date Castellos

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adlerplay123

Lurker
Aug 17, 2017
10
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Was searching the web for a new pipe and ran into a castello with great grain but it is marked with castello KKKK without oval on the left and MADE IN CANTU ITALY on the right with HAND MADE and CARLO SCOTTI in oval with HAND MADE CASTELLO 5 on the bottom of the stem. Have never seen this style of marking before and need help identifying if it is an old production or just a plain old fake. Thanks guys!
Edited by Cosmic: Please remember to capitalize the title.

 

briarblues

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 3, 2017
511
1,156
adlerplay123
This url will give you up to date info on dating a Castello's vintage.
http://www.briarblues.com/castello.htm
Upper case K's = pre 1969.
Regards

Michael J. Glukler

 

briarblues

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 3, 2017
511
1,156
So it looks like this
CASTELLO
KKKK

HAND MADE

MADE IN CANTU' ITALY

CARLO SCOTTI ( in an oval )
Nothing stamped under the CASTELLO? No shape number?
I'd really need to see some photos of the pipe in full. Plus the nomenclature up close.
Regards

Michael J. Glukler

 

jpmcwjr

Lifer
May 12, 2015
26,265
29,178
Carmel Valley, CA
Adler- Can you kindly link to a photo of said pipe? Sounds like a winner! And welcome to the forum.
PS. When I dated a Castello, (Sandra Castello) I found that a dozen roses and a bottle of Merlot at dinner did wonders for our relationship that evening.

 

briarblues

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 3, 2017
511
1,156
From the stampings I can say 1969 - 1982. Upper case K began in 1969 ish. Went to lower case in 1982. From the grain quality and finish color I would guess it would rank in the Collection region.
Regards

Michael J. Glukler

 

jpmcwjr

Lifer
May 12, 2015
26,265
29,178
Carmel Valley, CA
s-l1600.jpg


 
Oct 7, 2016
2,451
5,212
It would be one of the weakest kkkk Collections I have ever seen. From the way the carving is faceted to catch the grain, I would value it s a Castello "Castello",and in that range kkkk is a reasonable grade. That is a common carving technique on pipes in that range, but much less so in the Collection range, particularly in kkk and kkkk territory
There have been three of these no range specified smooth pipes on eBay auctions in the last few months, two auctioned by Pipestud and this one. The grain on all of these is superior to trademarks, but I can't imagine any Castello retailer who wouldn't raise a fuss if the factory tried to get top of the line Collection money for them. The fact that I have seen three of these in just a few months, and haven't even been trying to find them, should tell you something about the rarity of these pipes.

Oh, I think I have seen one more of these somewhere touted as "pre-collection". I doubt that seriously, as I have seen Italian sources that picture old Ivory white bar pipes that have the collection stamp, and most everybody agrees those are among the earliest Castello's in captivity.

Lots of things are rare to some (not pipestud) eBay sellers. If you shell out money based on such hype, with Castello's in particular you will be surprised at just how large the universe of interesting and in some respects unusual pipes is. More often than not, when I see something that I haven't seen in 35 years of looking at them, within a few weeks the same thing pops up again.

 

briarblues

Part of the Furniture Now
Aug 3, 2017
511
1,156
With all due respect OGS, I'd have to disagree on the grading it would receive today. While the front of the bowl has some "loose" grain, the sides show flame with hair like strands. Placement of the birds eye rim, shank ( top and base ) is fairly good with very little "roll over". It would not be a Collection 4k today, but a Collection 1k or a Castello " Castello" 3 or 4k. Enlarge the photos and see if you see what I see as far as grain. Then again, as you more than well know ...... Castello grading can be a mystery. :)
As far as grade stamp missing .... it happens. As we don't know the pipes history, we can't be sure how it was acquired. It could have been given to someone that visited and was not stamped at the buyers request or who knows.
We do agree on rare though. What is rare? Rare is a very over used / often abused descriptor on E-Bay. I would not call the pipe rare. I'd say not super common, but the style of faceted finish is far from rare.
Regards

Michael J. Glukler

 
Oct 7, 2016
2,451
5,212
The grain would wash out more noticeably if not faceted. I enlarged the pictures the day the pictures the day it was listed, and it has pleasing attributes, but it is not a kkkk Collection. On that, we agree, Mike. And, though I didn't explicitly say so, I broadly agree with your dating of 1969-1982. (The Italian dealer I learned dating from would say 70's and leave it at that) so what it would grade today means nothing. For its era, it would be a laughably weak 4K Collection, and would slide by as a k Collection, though I would have to really like the shape to be happy with it at that price. A Castello Castello 4K is a very nice pipe. The pipe that we are discussing is a nice pipe. I would not look to any one off explanation for the stamping on this pipe,since I have seen three on eBay in less than a month, and would be content to say that there must have been a period when Castello

Castellos just had one stamp, not two as today. And that is consistent with what I thought I knew 20 years ago, though since it isn't on the internet it must not be true

 
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