Help me fight off an anti-smoking motion in school

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lagavulin92

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 20, 2010
120
0
Good day my fellow smokers. As some of you may already know, I am a Gymnasium (High School equivalent in Austria and I am in my senior year) student. I am also a member of the school senate. I happen (well, I’m actually glad of this honour) to face the challenge of repelling an anti-smoking motion this Friday (Feb 25th) and I’m starting to prepare my arguments and I’ll do a few mock debates. It would be great if you, the smoking community, could list the arguments the smoking Nazis usually use and what can be done against them. Never say we’re helpless ;)

Of course, I have to specify the circumstances for any useful advice:

First of all, Austria is not what you’d imagine. It’s a tiny (but beautiful) German speaking country neighbouring and envying great Germany. It is romanticized by most tourists but we are backward in several aspects of our thinking. First of all, we are almost blind followers of authority, be it political or of the academia. Teachers are better than students, PhDs. better than MAs, Kant is God in any discussion, and so on. I’ll have to see that I will be academically bullshitting at my best this Friday. The better side of the medallion, however, is that we stick to the old. You can get alcohol in Austria with 16 and even hard liquor should you be in Vienna. The legal age of tobacco purchase is 16, too. (Mind purchase, because upon your parents consent you may even consume these goods earlier.) In the aspect of time-honoured, socially accepted drugs and potentially harmful food, Austrians are not liberal, but rather staunchly conservative.

Of course, Austria is not untouched by the globally surging activism against smokers. Smoking has been banned from schools. So it happened too that my school was smoke-free for a while. But last year our school was full of scandals of teachers and the headmaster misconducting, with me raising awareness of the faculty’s misdeeds to add oil in the fire. To appease the enraged students until summer break, they allowed us to smoke in a sunny, wind-free open-topped area within our school. The teachers and headmasters never planned to keep this allowance longer than to this point of time, but they couldn’t anticipate that a drink-sodden Burns and Pushkin-quoting punk-pipester and Asian like me would be elected student rep either. So here’s the strife.

The senate consists of 3 representatives from the teachers, the parents, and our side, the students. The parent reps are mostly failures and moralists, with a cheap job, no life, and too much time in their hands, mostly ugly wenches, you get the picture. The teachers, many defeated and with inferiority complexes, try to implement authoritarian and controlling policies, making the student’s life hell. They cooperate with the parents and exchange favours. The other two student reps are a combination of cowardice and opportunism. One of them is a guy with a measure of political understanding and wit and still in his junior year. He’ll probably cooperate with me for his reputation’s sake when he sees my plan. The other is a neo-feminist girl in her senior year, too. She is held in check because she is graduating and depends on her grades. Therefore she will try her best to sabotage me to gain the teacher’s favour. She’ll definitely be against smoking, although it doesn’t concern her. The headmaster participates in the discussion, mostly in favour to the teachers, and while he cannot vote, he does exert an influence of the students.

The thing is, to pass the motion and anything else, each house must give two yeas of three. If I lose the argument badly, the fellow man could support me, but is more likely to backstab me under “the serious and lengthy considerations” to appeal to the teachers. In fact they’ve already tried to kick me out of the school senate.

And one final thing is the Smoking Permits 16+ sophomores need to enter the smoking area. Most have lost them because the teachers stopped looking after them, but I’ve urged them to acquire a new one. This will motivate my headmaster and teachers to honour our age-old agreement to base our solutions on compromise rather than legal facts, so I expect no legal trouble with that matter. (The teachers usually don’t give a shit on the school laws anyway and exploit the incompetence of the school board to terrorise and indoctrinate us students.)
That being said, how should I proceed in that matter?
I already have a few ideas. Firstly I’ll ask for a more regulated form of speaking to respect the strong sentiments of all parties. I’ll make sure no one cuts my speech and take away alot of force from the opposition which will struggle to complete a full sound argument and will meet sarcasm and unfair debating with utmost contempt. I can go as far as saying “I wouldn’t pay a tenner to fake the college degree of yours”.

What I’ll also do is refusing to believe that there is any scientifically documented harm caused by smoking in moderation, requiring at least one source be produced, and that it doesn’t count to put a rat in a smoke-filled room for two months or more, and play the lone defender of science and reason.

As for the kids argument which will undoubtly be used against me in one form or another, I can only imagine taking the bull by its horns. I will refuse to let the concern for the younger students affect their future rights, claiming that a temporal state of a person cannot affect his or her future as a mature person with any moral justification. I will denounce the argumentation as an underhanded weapon used by anti-smoking groups all over the world to rob the free man of his rights. This is the hardest trick to pull, so it must come prepared.
Please share your hard-won experiences and rhetorical skill on that matter.

 

cortezattic

Lifer
Nov 19, 2009
15,147
7,642
Chicago, IL
You don't have a lot of time to prepare, but Dave Hitt's website and its imbedded links will help you immensely.
In the U.S. our efforts focus more on the fundamental freedoms guaranteed by our laws, which may not apply in your situation.

The above link takes a more scientific approach and challenges one's reasoning processes.

 

romeowood

Lifer
Jan 1, 2011
1,942
158
The Interwebs
First off, cheers to you, lagavulin, for 'walking the walk', as we say here in the States. Involvement is the only answer of the reasoned man.
The current anti-smoking legislation, everywhere in the world, is largely due to the WHO's Tobacco-Free Initiative. You would do well to become very familiar with all the bullet points of this side of the argument, and call into question the legitimacy of 1) the statistics that are constantly cited (and by "cited" i mean "created"), 2) the neglect of personal choice / freedoms, which cortez points out is the main focus in the U.S., and 3) the truth of the "public sentiment" that is continuously referenced.

Good luck, I hope you put them up against the wall!

 

yoru

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 5, 2011
585
1
Brava for the work you're putting in mate. And good luck. The two above me probably have plenty of good advice when mixed with your existing plans.
Myself I've always argued that the health ramifications of smoking don't matter and predicated my argument on the rights of free men more or less in the manner of, and as defined by, Greek culture. -- I have no idea if that would mean diddly in your case though so I wouldn't recommend it.

 

puffintuff

Can't Leave
Dec 14, 2010
437
0
Wow ! In Vienna, you can buy hard liquor at 16, but can't buy tobacco untill your 18 !
Good luck with your endeavor. And tell those kids to stay off the road when drinking.

 

lagavulin92

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 20, 2010
120
0
Thanks for all the suggestions. When I look at the situation, I see that there is no key to winning the fight. Just as the smoking Nazis have employed all means to demonize the smoker, I'll have to argue through all aspects. This includes countering health claims, second-hand smoke effects, group pressure effects, glorification effects and argumentos ad hominem, and strike back whenever I can.
Instead of delivering one unlawful blow against the Smoker, the Nazis sting him repeatedly ti take him down. We are discriminated and driven out of cafes with patinas on the roofs bearing evidence that their most loyal clientele were smokers. I can only counter in the very same fashion by overwhelming the audience with good points from diverse aspects presented in a good, even pedantic, academic style. If you solely rely on facts countring health claims, you'll, ironically, be called a twister of facts. However, when you are too superficial or pat you will be called dishonest, too.
Freedom and free will will never be major point in Old World Europe, especially in Old Catholic Austria, but most teachers and parents try to create an academic and enlightened impression, so the topic can help me through a few miles. In the end no quarter is ever given in this inconclusive fight and you have to take away everything your opponent could use against you or it will be used against you.

 

admin

Smoking a Pipe Right Now
Staff member
Nov 16, 2008
8,869
5,615
St. Petersburg, FL
pipesmagazine.com
lagavulin92 - I might be able to offer some helpful arguments.
I won't post it here as it is part of a larger project I am working on, and I cannot tip my hand publicly at this point.
I actually have several pages of hand-written notes compiled during several plane rides in my recent travels over the last months.
So I will have to type it up and email it to you.
My schedule is immensely packed this week, so please send me an email right away to remind me to type of some of this stuff for you. My email inbox serves as one of my "to Do" lists.
My email is:

email.gif


 

collindow

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 15, 2010
738
4
Portland, OR
Man have you taken up a mantle! Sir, I respect you and what you're trying to do. I only wish I had this sort of opportunity to effect change.
I can't offer much more than give no ground! If you give 'em an inch, they'll take a mile. And then another mile. And then more and more and more. Have you ever read If You Give a Mouse a Cookie? It is EXACTLY that situation. I've given an inch in a billion debates, with Liberals, smoke Nazis, anti-gun fanatics, and just general fools.
And bring a pipe, and impress them with your majestic figure! If I'm arguing I find I win more when I'm smoking a pipe. (All right, fine, don't actually smoke a pipe while you do this. They'd probably frown upon it ha.)
Anyhow, good luck. I wish you all the luck in the world. And then some, my friend.

 

porshcigar

Lifer
May 10, 2009
1,820
2
Naperville
Personal freedom is the issue. Individuals should be allowed the right to choose their own life-style risks. Risks are ever present. Eating fats and sweets, driving a car, skiing, driving a car or motor bike, smoking, etc. all carry risks that are taken by people who want to pursue an activity. The dictators of history have sought to take away the freedom of individual choice. No better example of this can be found than the history of Hitler and his anti-smoking program. The anti-smoking "nazi" is well named. See: http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id1.html

 

yoru

Part of the Furniture Now
Jan 5, 2011
585
1
The biggest issue we really run into is, to paraphrase Steven King -- The only time you absolutely cannot change a person's mind is when they are 'doing what is best for you'.

 

lagavulin92

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 20, 2010
120
0
Thank you for all the suggestions and the encouragement.
@porshcigar: Now I have substance to make a connection between the "ewig gestrigen Tage" (ever-past days) and anti-smoking regulation. This is definitely more than the typical argumentum ad hitlerum. Thanks.
@yoru: Yeah, thats so true. But I will make clear to those people that its not what they think that matters but rather how far they may go to interfere in our personal life choices that doen't concern them, namely not one bit. The deal is to dominate the guys who try to dominate the discussion and talk in monologues, by actively, even aggressively, imposing restrictions upon them, as happened so many time on us. I'll have an iron grip on the framework of argumentation, and hit them for every digression. Holier-than-thou moralists are known for their fuzzy and undisciplined argumentation.

 

kcvet67

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 6, 2010
968
0
You might work in Martin Niemöller's comment:

In Germany they first came for the Communists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists,

and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics,

and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me —

and by that time no one was left to speak up.​
There are several variations of it, but all are similar and to the same point. If we allow the government (school administration) to trample the rights of one group, it is only a matter of time before they come after another group and then another and another.

 

lagavulin92

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 20, 2010
120
0
@kcvet67 that's a nice poem which I'll always bear in mind in freedom issues. Unfortunately, as some have already said, you can't convince the Nazis but only fight them. Well, here are the results:
This time the teacher reps were rather cooperative, probably because this year much more liberal and commonsensical people are appointed. we've come to the conclusion that the "least evil" was to allow students of a certain age to smoke in a designated area. It was much better than driving them ouf of school where they's smoke and attract minors who couldn't be stopped and controlled by the teachers since the place was outside of the school property.
The parent reps( the Nazis) acknowledged that this was the best solution but saw a symbolic defeat in that solution and voted against it. Unfortunately, as I already told, I not only needed the majority of yeas, but also of every single faction. In total there were 5 of 9 yeas, 3 from us students and 2 from the teachers, 0 from the parents.
Of course, the battle isn't over (it never is). I now have the parents as the cause of smoking by minor students plus I got them as shameful smoking Nazis IGNORING the facts. That's what I say. They can't sue me for libel because in the end, when things become legal, they have the mock research which is so full of flaws that anyone boasting a college/university degree must condemn them. This is the advantage of living in Austria where being an Academic is a must. And of course we'll revolt against this failing of our school democracy and smoke in school as a political statement. Yeah those kids should learn for once what democracy is.

 
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