GBD Rhodesian: Shape # 9438 and # 569 Differences

[sumusfumus]

Hello Forum Members:
I need your help.
I recently purchased an (Etsy) estate pipe, a 1/4 Bent, GBD Smooth (flame grain), Chubby-Rhodesian: #569-GS/St. Claude w/round shank-black saddle bit.
I am trying to find out some information about this particular pipe shape. I am confused between the actual differences between GBD Rhodesians with the shape #9438 and # 569 shape. As far as I can tell (and I really don't know squat about the finer points between pipe shapes) these two shapes look identical.
Can any one give me a clue as to the differences between these two pipe shapes/models?
My GBD Rhodesian:

569 GS/St. Claude/Golden

OAL: 5.10"

Bowl Height: 1.68"

Bowl outer diameter: 1.77"

Bore width: 0.82" dia.

Bore depth: 1.25"

Weight: 2.18 ounces/62 grams

Manufactured: (?) 1970s-1980s...(Seller is guessing).
Thanks for any information regarding my newly acquired GBD estate pipe, and the differences between the two shape numbers/models.
Frank

 

[ssjones]

Every 569 (which often has M after the 9) that I've seen has a COM from France.
My 569M

I've also only seen this shape with a tapered stem. So, I think it is more along the
My 569M weighed 45 grams, so yours is significantly larger.
My 9242 New Standard

The 9438 is saddle stem Rhodesian, they typically range from 55 to 59 grams. The 9438 I believe only has the London, England COM stamp.

 

[paulfg]

interestingly I had a 569 GS with a saddle bit,again st claude made.

see here

http://pipesmokerunlimited.com/showthread.php?9818-Anyone-know-anything-about-this-GBD
It was quite large so I assumed the GS meant giant and saddle to indicate size and bit type.

Purely a guess mind you

 

[ssjones]

@Hagley - you once told me that the tapered stems were Pre-Cadogan and the full width stems post. The 9438 pictured has the taper.

 

[ssjones]

I had to edit my pictures above, i had the 569 in twice, now corrected.

 

[sumusfumus]

Thanks for all the interest, and for some answers.
So I assuming, from reading through some the comments that a 62 gram-weight pipe would be considered large for this line and shape. The seller said that this is a big, beefy, and thick-walled pipe, with a golden medium-brown stain....no faults/flaws.
Again, many thanks for the added information for this GBD Rhodesian estate pipe. Can't wait to load it with some good tobaccy and fire it up.
Frank
HAPPY THANKSGIVING TO ALL!

 

[gloucesterman]

The tapered bit on the 9438 is post-Codogan only if it has sides that have been flattened. That is, they do not curve toward each other culminating in a sharp edge but have a distinct flat side. These bits are also wider than the pre-Codogan types having less taper. As to the question about the difference from the 9438 the only thing I could find (I have several of each, Pre Codogan) is in the bit shape. The 569 has a shoulder cut at 90 degrees to the shank and the 9438 is tapered back towards the shank. Chamber sizes, depth, and other dimensions are identical but my sample is far to small to say with absolute certainty. My Pre-Codogan 569 is stamped with an "S" while the only post Codogan 569 I have is a "GS". I have seen the "GS" on a number of Post Codogan pipes. Hope that helps.

 

[ssjones]

I've read that the two different stem shapes, as described above denote a pre-Cadogan and Cadogan era GBD's.
Below are two 9438 stems. The top stem, which has a taper is said to be a pre-Cadogan style and the lower, a flat, blade-style stem Cadogan era.

However I'm not certain that this is true. At two Richmond CORPS show, a member of that club was a big 9438 enthusiast. One year, he had on his table a 9438 Tapestry that was unsmoked in a box with a receipt from Iwan Ries from 1974, in the pre-Cadogan era. It has the lower style stem. I had a 9438 Tapestry, so I did not buy that pipe. He also had several tapered stem 9438's on his display, that he said were also purchased in the early 1970s. Most of which came from the original Smokers Haven store in Ohio.
So that muddies the water a bit for me. I guess we may never know the real story.

 

[sumusfumus]

The saga continues...... all very interesting. God! You guys know so much about your pipes.
Bottom line, I am very happy that I bought myself a restored GBD Rhodesian. I like the shape, the larger size (62 grams)the history behind the pipe, and, that I will by smoking it very soon. The kid in me still gets me excited each time I buy an estate pipe. I can't wait for my newest pipe to show up in the mail.
Many thanks for all the good information about the GBD Rhodesian pipes.
Frank

 

[gloucesterman]

The two bit shown by Al are the ones used for English versions of the 9438 but there is also a separate version used on the version made for the French and Continental markets. So there are three in total. There are also two distinct versions of the French type.