Dunhill Original Stem or Not?

[mcitinner1]

This is the 1978 42011 Dunhill I showed earlier in the week before the cleanup. In the photo you can see a gap where the shank and stem meet. What is the likelihood that stem is/isn't original? I should say in every other respect the stem looks perfect, but is a tad loose.

 

[xrundog]

Your earlier pics look like a good tapered saddle stem. On an earlier pipe I'd expect the bit end to be curved a little. Hard to say if it's original.

But here's something that might fix that seating if you haven't done it already. Clean the base of the tenon area on the stem with magic eraser. Clean the mortise out with an alcohol dipped swab. Concentrate on the far inner area where a little gunk may be preventing a complete seat. Scrape the 90 degree round edge where the tenon end seats with a dental pick or a paper clip. Get it perfectly clean.

 

[fishnbanjo]

I believe xrundog has it right I think there is some gunk inside preventing proper seating.

banjo

 

[samcoffeeman]

I would say not original, the saddle part of the stem doesn't look quite right.

 

[ssjones]

If it is original, the saddle sure looks over-buffed. The White Dot is always a tell-tale indicator, can you show that?

 

[condorlover1]

I think Xrundog is spot on the money here with his observations.

 

[raevans]

I picked up a Dunhill for a song because the stem didn't quite fit snug and it was assumed that it was because the stem was a replacement. Turned out that the previous owner did not like the 9MM filters and had put in a 9MM insert to make the air passage smaller. The insert was just a hair too long and that is what caused the gap.

 

[bluesmk]

As others have said. I run into it all the time. It's generally gunk at the bottom of the mortise.

Dan

Gabrieli Pipes ::

 

[lordofthepiperings]

To me it looks like it's on upside down. Can't say for sure though, because there isn't an angle showing the white dot. If the dot is on top in that picture then I'd say it's probably gunk in the shank as others noted.

 

[mcitinner1]

@ ha ha Lordofthepiperings, I'm pretty sure after working on this pipe and taking a dozen photos of it that I can tell when the white dot is on top.

 

[mcitinner1]

Before

After

 

[mcitinner1]

Well the mortise did give up a fair amount hardened gunk. I gently hand turned the biggest drill bit that wouldn't bite into the wood to do it. It didn't help though.

 

[rcstan]

From your pics, the stem looks original, unless the tenon or slot are questionable. If you look down the airway from the tenon, it should have a "step" for the inner tube to rest on.

The stem looks also overbuffed, and if the stem face and the tenon have been buffed with anything but a soft cloth wheel too, there's the problem.

 

[pitchfork]

It looks like a Dunhill stem to me. At least nothing obvious jumps out suggesting otherwise. For what it's worth, I have a saddle-stem pot (not a Dunhill) with what I know is the original stem, yet the stem barely fit when I received it as an estate. Sometimes things can just get out of whack, especially if the pipe has gotten damp with smoking and was rarely cleaned (or ever in the case of mine).
If things just aren't lined up properly, you can gently heat the tenon and surrounding stem face and then insert it into the pipe, adjust it, and let it cool while in the proper position and that will help things. Just be gentle, both with the heating and with the "adjusting" or you could break the tenon or shank.

 

[xrundog]

Well the mortise did give up a fair amount hardened gunk. I gently hand turned the biggest drill bit that wouldn't bite into the wood to do it. It didn't help though.

Drill bit has a round end. You need to get into the sharp edges. Make them sharp again.

 

[mcitinner1]

The wall's of the mortise are clean a full 3/8" deeper than the tenon reaches.
Thank you all for trying to help figure out my issue with this stem.

 

[georged]

Based only on the limited photos, I'd say the stem is not original. The slope of the saddle cut is entirely wrong, and the "flow" of the outline of the shank/stem combo isn't consistent with the stem and shank having been leveled together. The stem diameter at the barrel also looks too small for the shank, and the blade portion of the stem looks too long for the stummel's shape.
That the tenon is 3/8" shorter than the mortise is deep is also worrisome (though not reliable---I've seen some bad mis-matches)
Having a dot means nothing, of course. They are quite simple to apply.
Can you post a picture of the slot? Dunnies of that era had notoriously chunky/clunky bite zones and under-shaped stems overall, but the slots tended to be fairly well cut. The right view of the slot would tell much.
While you're at it, a couple photos of the tenon showing both its end and the junction at the stem face would also be useful.

 

[mcitinner1]

Just saw your post George. The pipe has been sold.