Does The FDA Create Opportunity For Creativeness?

[mothernaturewilleatusallforbreakfast]

I know the FDA announcement sucks, but is there an opportunity for more creativeness in tobacco manufacturing because of it? I used to be a snusser and found a lot of snus manufacturers creating variations of classic snuses to give consumers more choice. For example, Ettan was orginally a los snus, then they made original portions, and then white portions. I apologize to those who don't know anything about snus. I'll get to my point.
A blend like Escudo has been around a while and should not be affected much by the FDA announcement, but will we ever see an Escudo Flake. Will blenders adapt by offering some of their classic blends in different variations or would this be taboo? I'd love to tray a shag cut FVF or a Capstan Blue plug. Does the FDA regulations prohibit this from happening... meaning that if it's a coin cut it has to stay a coin cut or it would be treated as a new blend?

 

[iamn8]

Isn't the FDA already famous for creating a free market in which choice & creativity blossoms and thrives?

 

[prairiedruid]

Isn't the FDA already famous for creating a free market in which choice & creativity blossoms and thrives?

Thanks Nate; I'm now wiping coffee off my computer screen. By the way snorting coffee is an effective way to get caffeine; messy but effective.

 

[jacks6]

It pretty much wipes that out. Any new variation of escudo would be considered a new product and would thus have to pay the exponential amount of money for a chance to be "approved" and allowed into the marketplace.

 

[perdurabo]

Nice one Nate. It's time for Americans to realize Capitalism isn't such a terrible thing. You do love your IPhone, don't you. Well, Marxism didn't build that. Free Market principles did.

 

[clickklick]

You guys are a riot! Seriously!

 

[iamn8]

The FDA is an agency, who by their very nature, exist to protect the stupid and the naive. Those who are gullible and lack common sense depend on agencies like the FDA. I understand the need for such an agency to deal with things like prescription medications, but it's become an agency defined by overreaching, bureaucratic stupidity, just another bloated governmental agency that's lost track of its raison d'etre.

 

[griffonwing]

I agree Nate. It's all about power.
I, for one, would love to see the removal of lobbyists altogether. Using money to schmooze and buy legislation is, or should be, illegal, and I do not see how this can continue. Remove the lobbyists, pass laws to criminalize (felony) any lobbying. Anyone caught, both lobbyist and politician gets heavily fined, jail time, and politician loses their seat and pension.

 

[mothernaturewilleatusallforbreakfast]

Any new variation of escudo would be considered a new product

So it is any variation. I thought that there was maybe some wiggle room as long as the recipe wasn't changed. I didn't know that they weren't permitting any variations and that it would be considered a new product if there was. My bad.

 

[jpmcwjr]

I believe that the above is not a settled issue, and there's an outside chance some reason will be inserted into the regs. Not taking bets, mind you.

 

[michaelmirza]

Limitations always lead to better creativity. I'd say limited are actually more conducive to new ideas than wide-open opportunities. Just look at MacGyver.

 

[hawky454]

What would it matter if Escudo were to come out with a flake version? It would taste identical to the coin version.
This will most definitely keep creativity at bay because creativity just got very expensive!

 

[mothernaturewilleatusallforbreakfast]

What would it matter if Escudo were to come out with a flake version? It would taste identical to the coin version.

Maybe, maybe not? Who knows because it doesn't exist. It was just an example anyway.

This will most definitely keep creativity at bay because creativity just got very expensive!

I don't know that this is true, but it may be? I have found that limitations and constraints often lead to creativity. Alcohol prohibition led to the creation of an entirely new market that thrived off of government regulations. Why would tobacco be any different. The big boys will conform and spend millions to abide by the new laws while everyone else will get creative because there's no other option.

 

[iamn8]

The difference is FAR FAR FAR more people drink than smoke pipes, many millions more.

 

[mothernaturewilleatusallforbreakfast]

The difference is FAR FAR FAR more people drink than smoke pipes, many millions more.

I'm not sure that the numbers matter that much with the way we exchange information, goods, and services now? I mean... I don't really want to say this out loud, but I buy high quality nasal snuff off the internet from a US manufacturer via email. I imagine he could care less about the FDA and what they do or don't do. I imagine his take is that he's going to make his snuff and sell it, and the FDA can hunt him down and catch him if they can. Why wouldn't a tobacco farmer who may be affected by these new regulations just start his own thing? I know I would if the new regulations were going to destroy my livelihood and growing tobacco was my passion and the only thing I knew? I guess I'm just not so gloom and doom over the recent announcements and believe that we'll see some creativity in many different contexts arise from this whole thing.

 

[iamn8]

I meant that the effects of FDA on pipe smoking won't change things much because most people don't smoke. Whereas prohibition changed things because everyone drank.

 

[jacks6]

They can get as creative as they want - but the FDA is likely to strike them down. If Camel can't sneak any new products past them, what makes you think the pipe manufacturers can?

Regulators say R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co. must stop selling four kinds of cigarettes because the Food and Drug Administration said the company had failed to show they aren't riskier than cigarettes on the market before mid-February 2007.
For the first time, the Food and Drug Administration has ordered a major tobacco company to stop selling several types of cigarettes.

The FDA on Tuesday ordered the R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Company to stop selling four products: Camel Bold Crush, Vantage Tech 13 and the regular and menthol versions of Pall Mall Deep Set Recessed Filter cigarettes.
The FDA has ordered other cigarettes off the market before, but those actions involved much smaller companies selling much less popular cigarettes.
The agency says it took the action because R.J. Reynolds had failed to prove the the cigarettes were no more dangerous than brands that have been on the market longer.
"These decisions were based on a rigorous, science-based review designed to protect the public from the harms caused by tobacco use," Mitch Zeller, director of the FDA's Center for Tobacco Products, said in a statement. "The agency will continue to review product submissions and exercise it's legal authority and consumer protection duty to remove products from the market when they fail to meet the public health bar set forth under law."
Congress gave the FDA authority to regulate cigarettes for the first time in 2009. Among the agency's new powers are the authority to require new products to prove they pose no more risks to smokers than cigarettes that were put on the market before Feb. 15, 2007.
The FDA says R.J. Reynolds had failed to show the four products that have been ordered off the market do not expose smokers to more harmful chemicals, higher levels of menthol or new ingredients.
R.J. Reynolds didn't immediately respond to a request to comment.

 

[mothernaturewilleatusallforbreakfast]

I meant that the effects of FDA on pipe smoking won't change things much because most people don't smoke. Whereas prohibition changed things because everyone drank.

Got it.

They can get as creative as they want - but the FDA is likely to strike them down. If Camel can't sneak any new products past them, what makes you think the pipe manufacturers can?

Your right, they have manufacturers like Camel on speed dial. Those two probably do lunch together, and Camel's huge and can work with them. I'm not talking about the big pipe tobacco manufacturers, as mentioned previously, they will just try to hang in there and follow the rules. [There may be a lot of consolidating, and we might end up with a couple manufacturers and a couple distributors that all pipe tobacco goes through (just guessing that everyone will try and hold on to their piece of the current pie, but everyone will have to settle for less and the small players will drop out or sell out for cheap)]? I'm talking about everyone else. Won't there be a pipe tobacco black market created by everyone else. I mean... I think it's already happening based on the hoarding that's going on, but I think it will get more creative in breadth and depth over time. Although, it may go back to what Nate mentioned above that most people don't smoke? I don't know? I just don't want things to change and if they do I want them to change for the better, in spite of the FDA. Damn FDA.

 

[hawky454]

Alcohol prohibition led to the creation of an entirely new market that thrived off of government regulations. Why would tobacco be any different. The big boys will conform and spend millions to abide by the new laws while everyone else will get creative because there's no other option.

Yes, if all tobacco gets outlawed you will most definitely see cigarettes on the black market but I doubt you'll see any creative pipe tobacco blends on that same market. Besides, that's not a good example because that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking about the FDA regulations and how they will affect the industry. I seriously doubt we will be seeing anything like Escudo Flake or other similar creations.

I like that you're are trying to think on the bright side though.

 

[anthonyrosenthal74]

What I think we'll see is more pipe tobacco manufacturers offering blending tobaccos and putting out recipes. A pipe tobacco blender is going to do what a pipe tobacco blender does... create new blends. He might not be able to sell that new blend in a tin anymore, but he can sell unblended tobacco and offer recipes for new blends.