Counterfeiting and Fakery

[mikethompson]

I have been tricked. At least I'm pretty sure I have. I've been lured by an unbelievably low price and paid for two counterfeit watches. The signs were there when I look at the pictures closely, but I didn't see it originally.

This is not how a well made watch should be labelled, off center like this.

While I'm sure I can get my money back from eBay, I got to wondering if anyone has ever inadvertently bought faked pipes. Could this even be done? I suppose if you could make metal stamps with Dunhill or whatever name and push them into basket pipes.

I've never really come across this in the pipe world. Does anyone have any stories?

 

[gamzultovah]

I don’t think that the juice would be worth the squeeze (when it comes to pipes).

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Having a stamp made isn't cheap. It would take a solid investment in the scheme, but I suppose anything is possible. They would have to assume to be making many fakes to offset the cost of the stamps.

There was a case where Dunhill stummels were smuggled out of the factory and let out into the market that actually became more collectible than the genuine Dunhills, but that is a very rare case.

It wouldn't be all that easy to fake a watch also. Unless someone was buying broke watches and using the faces on cheaper ones... on this one, is the case backing marked appropriately? I am not that familiar with this brand, but on a search... they seem middling, ranging from a hundred to a grand, not exactly luxury Swiss. It used to be Swiss, but now Hong Kong mass production watch. Unfortunately, some brands start off as luxury, but when the market drops they sell their name to a Chinese manufacturer to try to make a buck off the name alone. This one was a name bought by a Chinese Mass production company that now slaps the name on the crap they make. It might not be fake, just mass produced now.

Solvil et Titus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[mikethompson]

Having a stamp made isn't cheap. It would take a solid investment in the scheme, but I suppose anything is possible. They would have to assume to be making many fakes to offset the cost of the stamps.

Maybe a 3D printed stamp could be made, and then forged from metal in China somewhere?

There was a case where Dunhill stummels were smuggled out of the factory and let out into the market that actually became more collectible than the genuine Dunhills, but that is a very rare case.

I've never heard that story before. Disgruntled employees?

It might not be fake, just mass produced now

Could be, but I did some digging after the fact and found that a lot of these fakes come from India, where I bought mine.

Here's a shot of the front of the other one I bought, it looks like the Camy name was printed on top of a number.

One that I hope is legit is this older Seiko. It has some wear on it which suggests it has some age to it, but the 5 looks a bit off.



On the other hand, I'm sure I could find some pipes of mine with odd stamping, but I've never thought of them being faked.

 

[pappymac]

You want a fake watch, go to New York City. They sell all sorts of big name knock off items on the street corners.

 

[ashdigger]

I show fake interest all the time, how much depends on the quantity of alcohol I’m ingesting.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

So, like... you aren't asking anything. You've done your homework, now you're just sharing with the class.

Very nice.

 

[scloyd]

Mike, who was the seller?

 

[Aomalley27]

I’ve seen a few faked pipes; A Sherlock Original with a saddle stem?, (it turns out it was an 05 with the Sherlock silver collar, and saddle stem. Not sure why that was done,?‍ But it sold for what a Sherlock usually takes in).... but it’s rare.

 

[scloyd]

A couple of summers back there was a woman in a local town that put out signs on the corner of her street offering Gucci bags. I drove by the house one day just for kicks and there were several cars lined up on the street near her house. Selling Gucci bags from her home. I would bet they were fake.

There's a huge flea market south of Milwaukee, "7 MIle Fair", that I've been to a couple of times. It's full of fake items and people by it.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

A couple of summers back there was a woman in a local town that put out signs on the corner of her street offering Gucci bags. I drove by the house one day just for kicks and there were several cars lined up on the street near her house. Selling Gucci bags from her home. I would bet they were fake.

90% of the time, when you see this, what has actually happened was that the Chinese, Indian, or Mexican factory that was hired to produce a name brand bag or product like this, over produced the product, or it was rejected by the brand. So, they flood the black market with them. They will be indistinguishable from the originals, because they are made by the same factory.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

A courtier will produce a limited line of handmades, and then hire out their "factory mades" as a cheaper line of a product. It is this cheaper line that gets sold on the black market like this. IMO, a name brand that does this is just riding their laurels and are not worth the higher prices for their factory mades. So, I do not feel bad about these outlet anomalies at all.

 

[mikethompson]

So, like... you aren't asking anything. You've done your homework, now you're just sharing with the class.

Very nice.

I'm asking how prevalant fakes are in the pipe world if at all, and using my recent experience with watches as an example.

?

 

[Morrison Jeremiah]

Looking at a range of images of Titus watches on the net, some logos are dead centre and some are slightly off, it's just poor quality control.
If you want a good watch get a Longines.

 

[scloyd]

Years ago when I was still working, I was eating lunch in my work truck one day and two guys approached me and tried to sell me new speakers. I'm sure we've all heard about that scam.

 

[mikethompson]

Mike, who was the seller?

Security Measure

www.ebay.ca

90% of the time, when you see this, what has actually happened was that the Chinese, Indian, or Mexican factory that was hired to produce a name brand bag or product like this, over produced the product, or it was rejected by the brand. So, they flood the black market with them. They will be indistinguishable from the originals, because they are made by the same factory.

Cool - I didn't know that.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Looking at a range of images of Titus watches on the net, some logos are dead centre and some are slightly off, it's just poor quality control.
If you want a good watch get a Longines.

The link I posted above explains that the name was bought by a Chinese company that is mass producing the watches now. A new Titus is just a piece of crap with an old Swiss companies name on them now.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I'm asking how prevalant fakes are in the pipe world if at all, and using my recent experience with watches as an example.

I am certain that there are fakes out there, but really... there are easier ways to make money. A collector will know what to look for in the design. It may be easy (but not cheap) to put a logo on something, but to copy the lines and contours used in Dunhill designs is not as easy. It takes a distinguished eye to pick up on some of these. Remember that game we had going for a few weeks, where we had to guess the pipe brand or maker by the pipe's profile?

This is why I would suggest that someone wanting to get into collecting higher end pipes, start by looking, looking, looking. If you just jump in and start buying low to sell high, you are in for a bitter disappointment in many different ways. You should go into any collecting of luxury good with specifics in mind. Don't just buy and then post some pictures asking us after the fact "what is this?" I see it all the time on here, and it's really stupid. Look, learn, then buy. Or, else you will get what your impatience deserves.

 

[Alejo R.]

There are tons of fake vintage watches on eBay. If the seller is from India, the watch is probably fake, with the face repainted. This is helped by the fact that voyage watches usually have more or less generic calibers, so the temptation to turn a Tressa into a Giraud Perregaux or an Omega, for example, is usually high. In Pipes, a Mexican pipe factory made its own Savinellis without any remorse...

 

[Alejo R.]

Norma de México S.A.