Bourbon Query.

[mawnansmiff]

I've just ordered some Jim Beam Double Oak Bourbon to add to my ever increasing bourbon & whisky collection and wondered if American bourbon makers are following in the steps of makers of Scotch in putting no age statements on their bottles or has it always been that way in the States

It would be interesting to know how long the spirit has aged so as like for like comparisons could be made.

The blurb says this......

Jim Beam Double Oak is matured it in not one, but two new charred American white oak barrels. When transferred to second, charred oak barrel we allow the bourbon greater contact with the flavour-giving, deeply charred wood – yielding a premium and intense yet smooth taste.

….but no comment on how many years for either barrelling.

Regards,

Jay.

 

[shanez]

Like Scotch producers, some do and some don't. Also like Scotch, bottles with age statements are required to actually be of that age whereas non-statement labeled bottles are either younger, blended ages, "experimental", etc.

American whiskey also has a Bottled in Bond" category which has it's own requirements, one of which is that it's bottled at 50% ABV.

Again, like Scotch, there are wonderful bottles available in all categories/labelings.

 

[shanez]

You might have some luck finding Jim Beam Black 8 year on your side of the pond.

 

[Bengel]

From the not always accurate Wikipedia, but in this case I think it is mostly so. Correct me if in error

“Bourbon has no minimum specified duration for its aging period. Products aged for as little as three months are sold as bourbon. The exception is straight bourbon, which has a minimum aging requirement of two years. In addition, any bourbon aged less than four years must include an age statement on its label. *this, I think is, not currently the case because of the boom.

Bourbon that meets the above requirements, has been aged for a minimum of two years, and does not have added coloring, flavoring, or other spirits may be – but is not required to be – called straight bourbon.

• Bourbon that is labeled as straight that has been aged under four years must be labeled with the duration of its aging.
• Bourbon that has an age stated on its label must be labeled with the age of the youngest whiskey in the bottle (not counting the age of any added neutral grain spirits in a bourbon that is labeled as blended, as neutral-grain spirits are not considered whiskey under the regulations and are not required to be aged at all).

Bottled-in-bond bourbon is a sub-category of straight bourbon and must be aged at least four years.”

 

[Bengel]

Further reading about my favorite expression of the libation.

https://www.reddit.com/r/bourbon/comments/8fapau

 

[jerseysam]

I've just ordered some Jim Beam Double Oak Bourbon to add to my ever increasing bourbon & whisky collection and wondered if American bourbon makers are following in the steps of makers of Scotch in putting no age statements on their bottles or has it always been that way in the States

Like your side of the pond, age statements have receded as demand outstrips supply in the last several years. There are still a sizable amount of Bourbon/American Whisky brand offerings that carry age statements; the only 'by law' rules are two years aging if using the terms 'Straight Bourbon' or four years if 'Bottled in Bond'. In practice most major distillers/blenders release lines that play in the 3-6 year category (especially in blended whisky).

Age statements overall were probably ever so slightly less prevalent compared to the Scotch market, but you will find similarities in both markets. Demand getting ahead of supply leading to reduced age statements, a preference for 'single' signifiers as opposed to blends, etc.

I profess ignorance to import prices on your end, but if starting out I'd recommend looking up Old Forester 1920 Prohibition (there are four releases featuring years as signifiers, 1920 recommended here), Four Roses Small Batch, and Old GrandDad 114 as fairly available, affordable bourbons here in the colonies. They'd give you a sample of higher-proof/rye-heavier mash-bills vs. what you've listed as trying so far.

 

[jerseysam]

...or toss in Wild Turkey Rare Breed/Kentucky Spirit or Russel's Reserve (which carries a 10 yr AS) to get an affordable view of 'cinnamon/sweet-hot' profile. Wild Turkey is a storied distiller that just isn't as trendy as Heaven Hill or Buffalo Trace...you can find tremendous value in their lines compared to the market overall.

My humblest of opinions only, but if starting out on bourbon/American whisky sample the well-reviewed blended bottlings as opposed to chasing some of the bigger name single barrel offerings which rule the secondary landscape. I've tasted many a bottle of 'meh' Blantons compared to the dependable consistency of something like OGD 114 or OF 1920 (the 'highs' of Blantons may be higher, but the lows are much lower at 3X the price).

 

[tkcolo]

We had a local distillery open up and I tried their bourbon sampler. I asked them if they were blending bourbon made by others, and they said they had a special way to age their 6 month old bourbon. It was the most god-awful stuff I've ever tasted. I wouldn't even clean a wound with it. How can a Colorado distillery sell a food-colored moonshine and call it bourbon?

 

[anotherbob]

We had a local distillery open up and I tried their bourbon sampler. I asked them if they were blending bourbon made by others, and they said they had a special way to age their 6 month old bourbon. It was the most god-awful stuff I've ever tasted. I wouldn't even clean a wound with it. How can a Colorado distillery sell a food-colored moonshine and call it bourbon?

the fake aging thing isn't as grand as some people want you to think it is.

 

[alaskanpiper]

Sometimes you see age statements on Bourbon but not often. Age statements were (and still very much are) much more prevalent in the scotch world. While NAS (No Age Statement) offerings are more common than they have ever been in the scotch world as well, the vast majority of scotch distilleries still put an age statement on their core offerings and flagship products.

NAS offerings allow scotch distilleries to capitalize on younger whiskies and fun experimental side projects, some of which are fantastic. Unfortunately for the American craft whisky scene, what is considered a "younger" whiskey (4-8 years) in Scotland, would be considered quite old here, as many small craft distilleries are cranking out garbage juice that is a mere 6 months or so old. Outside of the long established Bourbon distilleries (rare even in those) you'd be hard pressed to find more than a handful of American made whiskies that are more than 8 years old.

As much as I would love to see the craft whisky scene flourish here, outside of the larger, more well established distillers (Buffalo Trace, Woodford, Beam, etc.) , at this point, it is pretty tough to find really quality products, although there are a few, particularly with Rye whiskies. Which is understandable. It is a difficult business model to create a product and let it sit on a shelf for 12 years before you sell any of it, unless you've already got a nice ladder going from 100+ years of production. In the meantime, they have to sell young whiskies. It just is what it is.

 

[Rockyrepose]

It is a difficult business model to create a product and let it sit on a shelf for 12 years before you sell any of it, unless you've already got a nice ladder going from 100+ years of production. In the meantime, they have to sell young whiskies. It just is what it is.

I believe this is the case with the local craft distillery here, having said that, the young bourbon coming out of there is pretty unique and fantastic. The Master blender is Nancy Fraley.

 

[alaskanpiper]

I believe this is the case with the local craft distillery here, having said that, the young bourbon coming out of there is pretty unique and fantastic. The Master blender is Nancy Fraley.

Good! Which one is it?

 

[Rockyrepose]

Good! Which one is it?

Wyoming Whiskey

I haven't had the Rye but I've had everything else they've put out.

 

[alaskanpiper]

Wyoming Whiskey

I haven't had the Rye but I've had everything else they've put out.

Ah yes, we get the bourbon here. It is decent!

 

[mawnansmiff]

I just typed in "Wyoming Whiskey" into Amazon UK (my regular source of spirits) and came up with this....

Wyoming Whiskey by Jess Camilla O'Neal and the Neversweat Players on Amazon Music - Amazon.co.uk - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wyoming-Whiskey/dp/B00HY3KM04 ?

Regards,

Jay.?

 

[BarrelProof]

I can’t wait for bourbon to not be popular again so this is no longer an issue.

Check out www.finedrams.com. They’ll ship, prices are reasonable, and if the product doesn’t make it to your door, they’ll replace it for free.

 

[CoffeeAndBourbon]

Good! Which one is it?

Nancy is awesome!

 

[lawdawg]

I'm late to the game here, but the truth of the matter (which I believe is slowly being discovered and accepted in the bourbon community) is that aging bourbon past somewhere around 6 to 8 years doesn't do it any good. It just tastes like wood. Basically, age doesn't matter nearly as much with bourbon as it can with scotch. With scotch, there can be a damn good reason why the spirit has been sitting in the barrel aging for 20 years. Not so much with bourbon.

 

[Country Bladesmith]

It might’ve already been mentioned, it’s a long thread, and I haven’t read it all yet, but sometimes if stock runs low, distillers will blend their old stuff with newer stuff and drop the age statement to make a product that still tastes much like the usual and is still sellable. Beam Suntory had a big fire a while back, if I remember correctly. I could be wrong, but that sticks out in my memory. That loss of inventory coupled with an uptick in sales could’ve caused them to take that tack. I know Knob Creek, a Beam product, dropped their 9 year statement for a while. It’s back now, but there was a lengthy hiatus for the age statement.

 

[mso489]

Does aging in the bottle count or only in the cask? I've always assumed it is only in the cask, and the best you get from aging in the sealed bottle is preserving whatever came out of the cask.