Anti-smoking propaganda
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I'd read it first but, it certainly might be something I would give my grandson. Anything that might help him save a bunch of moneys and perhaps lengthen his life is of interest.
In my youth there was certainly a lot of truth to to the quote above. It was a maxim I proved many times. To me a girl smoking indicated a rebellious pattern of behavior I might be able to take advantage of. I was always looking for signs.
In my youth there was certainly a lot of truth to to the quote above. It was a maxim I proved many times. To me a girl smoking indicated a rebellious pattern of behavior I might be able to take advantage of. I was always looking for signs.
I am not sure raising kids on any propaganda is a good idea. It teaches them that life is binary choices made with knee-jerk response to appearance, which is a good way to blunt any natural intelligence they have.
Sorry, I'm part hippie, and I've seen this one play out too many times. Whether the group is anti-smokers, religious zealots, or socialists, it all seems to end the same way. When they decompensate from the mental loop created by propaganda, they often go the other way entirely.
Sorry, I'm part hippie, and I've seen this one play out too many times. Whether the group is anti-smokers, religious zealots, or socialists, it all seems to end the same way. When they decompensate from the mental loop created by propaganda, they often go the other way entirely.
We are all raised on propaganda. Propaganda is part of what forms our little kid minds and makes us what we are as adults. If you are referring to the first sentence I see nothing new there. Smokers, particularly cigarette smokers, show a greater propensity to engage in risky behavior. Probably not so easy a charge to make these days with the reduction in smoking. In a few years those numbers will be interesting to see and dissect.
Zealotry can be found here, on this forum, with regard to the pipe, extolling the virtues of the pipe. Some real, some only imagined. Some smokers are as vehement in their defense of the pipe as the antis are in their distaste for the pipe. We are capable of being just as inhospitable to those we do not like or respect as the other side is. It is easier to simply be dismissive of those with whom we disagree and slap a label on them. Much harder to form cogent arguments and debate. This is especially true when one is a smoker with no solid foundation to argue from other than, it's fun or relaxing, makes me feel good, etc.
Zealotry can be found here, on this forum, with regard to the pipe, extolling the virtues of the pipe. Some real, some only imagined. Some smokers are as vehement in their defense of the pipe as the antis are in their distaste for the pipe. We are capable of being just as inhospitable to those we do not like or respect as the other side is. It is easier to simply be dismissive of those with whom we disagree and slap a label on them. Much harder to form cogent arguments and debate. This is especially true when one is a smoker with no solid foundation to argue from other than, it's fun or relaxing, makes me feel good, etc.
Cause and effect? Smoking has precipitously declined, while risky, irresponsible behavior has not. I see an environment where young people do not smoke because of health implications but for some reason, relish in unsafe sex and various forms of drug use. Go figure.
Why can't we enjoy our pipes, without justification, since this is a pipe forum?
This is especially true when one is a smoker with no solid foundation to argue from other than, it's a vehicle for nicotine delivery, etc.
Why can't we enjoy our pipes, without justification, since this is a pipe forum?
This is especially true when one is a smoker with no solid foundation to argue from other than, it's a vehicle for nicotine delivery, etc.
I don't feel the need to justify the pipe. I think new smokers do as they maybe uncomfortable with their decision to smoke. I made my decision and happily, most of the time, live with it.
Was the juxtaposition of three vices, smoking, sexual promiscuity, and drug use intentional. I like it! All three are indulged in, putting aside addiction, for purely selfish reasons. All three provide temporary satisfaction. All three can be expensive. But, I certainly do not see smoking as a "responsible" behavior. That may be harsh as I do not know your definition of "responsible."
Was the juxtaposition of three vices, smoking, sexual promiscuity, and drug use intentional. I like it! All three are indulged in, putting aside addiction, for purely selfish reasons. All three provide temporary satisfaction. All three can be expensive. But, I certainly do not see smoking as a "responsible" behavior. That may be harsh as I do not know your definition of "responsible."
We had different childhoods
Propaganda is the form, not the message itself, although the message is shaped by the form.
I appreciate your politeness and consideration, but I'm a realist. We recognize "subjectivity" for what it is, which is nonsense.
Then again, I see degrees of "responsible," with the biggest being accountability for one's own actions. That I see as far more important than any health risks presented by pipe and cigar smoking, which are far less than the risks around here incurred by, say, diesel exhaust.
I agree entirely here. It leads to a backlash and blots out understanding. It is the opposite of what is needed.
And yet most people are afraid to abandon it, for (legitimate) fear of what others might say... and then do with their newfound moral judgments.
The juxtaposition of those three "vices", while intentional on my part, was a continuation of the OP. All true vices fit your characterizations as selfish, temporarily satisfactory and expensive.
A vice, by definition, is incongruent with responsible behavior so unless you or I disagree with the English language, it matters not. I would argue that a behavior can be a vice for one person and not another. Simply depends on the magnitude and duration of the behavior by that individual.
So, what's your point? You are a pipe smoking anti-smoking zealot because smoking is a vice for you? I really could care less. As I said before, why can't we enjoy our pipes, without justification, since this is a pipe forum?
A vice, by definition, is incongruent with responsible behavior so unless you or I disagree with the English language, it matters not. I would argue that a behavior can be a vice for one person and not another. Simply depends on the magnitude and duration of the behavior by that individual.
So, what's your point? You are a pipe smoking anti-smoking zealot because smoking is a vice for you? I really could care less. As I said before, why can't we enjoy our pipes, without justification, since this is a pipe forum?
I think everyone should have a wee vice. Nothing wrong with a vice except as society views it. I enjoy smoking and do not begrudge others for smoking. What I do not like is turning others to smoking by only extolling the upside and ignoring the negatives. I have made it known that choosing to smoke is a personal decision and I most especially do not like to see smoking projected to young folk as anything other than a selfish choice with no up side that I know of except personal gratification. That's all. Anyone who asks my opinion on smoking will get the same answer, I find it a pleasurable amusement. But, I would never recommend smoking to others as I see it as a usually bad decision, economically, health wise and socially.
But, do not think I am anti-smoking. I simply think a person deliberating such a decision should look at it from all angles. The primary consideration to me is economic. Could one better spend their moneys and get more in return than smoke? Or a collection of brier? Nothing wrong with smoking as a personal choice. I also view a person who smokes as one who may be lacking in decision making skills. I am not exempting myself. I most likely would not hire a smoker for various reasons but, I have no problem socializing with one. I like smoking or I'd cease and spend the moneys on other diversions.
But, do not think I am anti-smoking. I simply think a person deliberating such a decision should look at it from all angles. The primary consideration to me is economic. Could one better spend their moneys and get more in return than smoke? Or a collection of brier? Nothing wrong with smoking as a personal choice. I also view a person who smokes as one who may be lacking in decision making skills. I am not exempting myself. I most likely would not hire a smoker for various reasons but, I have no problem socializing with one. I like smoking or I'd cease and spend the moneys on other diversions.
Warren, I understand the justification of your position but I could care less about arguing, changing or moving you from that stance. You make points that I agree with and others where I disagree.
I am not here to rail against the anti-smoking zealots or drink the Kool-aid with the pipe smokers. I want to enjoy pipe smoking and that includes learning as much as I can, in part, via this forum.
As for the OP, I do take issue with the appearance that somehow tobacco leads to drug and alcohol abuse.
I am not here to rail against the anti-smoking zealots or drink the Kool-aid with the pipe smokers. I want to enjoy pipe smoking and that includes learning as much as I can, in part, via this forum.
As for the OP, I do take issue with the appearance that somehow tobacco leads to drug and alcohol abuse.
I totally agree with your last sentence. Smoking is just an indicator that a person may be liable to turning to other self-gratifying behavior. I've never abused drugs or alcohol and have smoked for over fifty years. However, a great preponderance of such abusers are also smokers. There is that correlation. The tobacco use is simply an indicator of possible future behavior. The word concomitant might be a bad choice although research does show that one often times follows the other.
Also: justification is bad thinking.
That's why they used the weasel word. The reality is that a lot of people who do other stuff also smoke; for example, in certain areas most stoners also smoke. They want you to reverse that thought and see it as smoking leading to the pot-smoking because that's most convenient for their nanny thesis.
Interesting stuff, as always. Makes me wonder if smoking was regarded as an indicator of barbarism and incipient misanthropy back when very nearly everyone smoked, or if this is a recent scientific breakthrough. I wish I had the time and energy to devote first-hand research to this topic in societies where smoking is still extremely popular. I would like to know, for example, if all Japanese smokers are considered Yakuza, or if all Israeli smokers are supposed by their peers to be Hamas luna-bombers? Or perhaps the clear link between tobacco and degeneracy does not become apparent until it is no longer popular in a given society?
I think it's like this:
A town of 900 men.
300 of the 900 men smoke.
100 of the 900 men are criminals.
Of those 100, 95% smoke (and most also take drugs, drink, are promiscuous, etc).
Thus, while most smokers are not criminals, most criminals are smokers.
The relationship is the usual logical fallacy when applied by the media: "Most criminals are smokers means that most smokers are criminals!"
A town of 900 men.
300 of the 900 men smoke.
100 of the 900 men are criminals.
Of those 100, 95% smoke (and most also take drugs, drink, are promiscuous, etc).
Thus, while most smokers are not criminals, most criminals are smokers.
The relationship is the usual logical fallacy when applied by the media: "Most criminals are smokers means that most smokers are criminals!"
This is as usual a dangerous extension of the left. Today we are seeing in Universities active debate stifled or silenced as it might 'upset' someone. Someone needs to grab these fools by the neck, march them outside and put them out of their misery!
Which kills me, because the whole purpose of University seems to me to be to learn how to think, to confront dangerous ideas, and get ready for adulthood. You can't do that in a censored environment.
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