My Epiphany About the Importance of Packing

[lithicus]

Folded and stuffed flakes of any humidity. Ready rubbed packed hard - so long as the airway is clear at the bottom of the bowl, we're in business. I don't particularly time the duration; oft times, I'll put a pipe down and pick it up later but if I smoke start to finish, group 3 is 45 minutes? There's huge variability in group sizes, say 50% for each group.

I believe tobacco density means flavour intensity and go down that route. Maybe the environmental conditions here mean there is seldom too much moisture; if it does build, I do the "flick". Light tamp before relights, enjoy.

These days, I don't pay too much conscious attention to the process, to be honest.

I agree that Group 3 size isn't standardized, but I thought it was something everyone could still relate too. FWIW, I would consider my Peterson 314 to be in that Group 3 size at ~0.75in chamber diameter and a little under 1.5in deep. I feel this is a fairly typical size for a medium Group 3 bowl. But, I digress.

If I pack a bowl of this size "normal" (ie; not light, not hard, by my definitions mind you), how I have been for nearly 2 years now, it would take me 2-3 hours to finish. No tongue bite. Flavor wouldn't be bad, but changed for the worse half way through. The bottom quarter borderline unpleasant. And while there wasn't a ton of moisture in the bottom, there would be moisture nonetheless. And I was running pipe cleaners through multiple times during my smoke. If I puffed on it fast enough, hard enough, to finish it in 45minutes or even an hour, I would have tongue bite, putrid smoke, and 1/4 bowl of wet dottle in the bottom. Didn't take long for me to learn this. Sip the pipe. No need to rush. No need to finish in an hour.

But one week, in a moment of reflection perhaps brought on by the testimonials of others, I felt maybe it was time to experiment again. Not overthinking it... Just reflecting on my 2 years of experience and wondering if it could be better. What have I learned? Why wasn't I enjoying the second half of the pipe as much as the first? Some truly enjoy how the flavor changed for the better throughout the smoke. Mine always changed for the worse. Could I adjust my cadence, tamping, or packing so I only have to run a pipe cleaner through mid-smoke on an off day?

This line of questioning and reflection lead me to believe I was using more tobacco than most, which lead me to this "gravity fill" (which I would consider a "light" pack), as well as this post. And, fwiw, now my experience aligns with your own. Group 3 in ~45 minutes to a little over an hour, although I'm not sitting there with a stop watch. But clearly not 2+ hours. Intense flavor practically the whole way through. Rarely getting too much moisture. So, I think I'm going down the right path for me. This is not to criticize you or your methods! Just to bring light to how subjective all of this stuff can be. You have to do what works for you as everyone treats their pipe differently.

 

[lithicus]

In my newb thought pattern, gravity filling cube cut and gravity filling shag would result in a completely different density of tobacco in the bowl.

I smoke almost exclusively flakes that I break up. I've heard that if you fold and stuff, you need to give room for the tobacco to expand. Be careful to not over pack it. In that sense, gravity filling cube cut would be more dense than gravity filling shag. I think this is correct and not "newb thought".

 

[lithicus]

The pinch or the video you posted is huge.
I follow the instructions of the video below and it really works.

hahaaha that is definitely a much smaller pinch! But, I likely would've stopped where he continued with his pinch. I might sprinkle some trimmings/dust on top to get a more flat/even pack on the top. It really depends and is contextual. I'm not trying to draw hard fast rules here. I think this video is a little closer to what I do, but again since I breakup my flake on a tray, I often sprinkle leftover bits/dust on top. I'm actually quite impressed with how well this guy is able to fill his pipe all the way to the top from gravity alone.

The main point I'm trying to drive home to newcomers is, packing hard or packing light is subjective. I tried a gravity fill when I first started, but I didn't prepare my tobacco properly to do so. It wouldn't fall into the pipe, and so I would lightly push it down. And I eventually gave up on the gravity fill realizing I was just doing the 3 step baby, lady, man pack thing. I was too inexperienced or dumb to realize I needed to prepare my tobacco differently to get it to "fall" into the pipe with gravity alone.

 

[lithicus]

For me there is a teqnique that is superior to any other and greatly improved my pipe smoking:
Stop overthinking.

I assume this must be a typo because there is no technique that is superior to any other.

I also love people telling other people to stop "overthinking" it. This isn't wrong, but I don't see the point in discouraging people from experimenting and trying to improve their experience. This is how the old timers learned before the internet when they knew no other pipe smokers to ask questions of. And, we wouldn't call them out on "overthinking" it. We would applaud them for learning on their own, the hard way, through experimentation. Trial and error.

Not knowing any other pipe smokers in person, I often try to help others in my same situation whenever I have a "breakthrough". I try to post about it as I feel it is worth sharing. It's the entire point of this subforum. Anyone can ignore it, but maybe it will help someone newcomer out. The last time I was "overthinking it" was Jan 16 of 2024.

Newcomer's Tips for Newcomers :: Pipe Smoking Basics & Beginner Questions

I have not been smoking all that long. If you're interested, you can see the early part of my journey in this very subforum where I posted about my first dozen or so bowls, how things seemed to be improving, and a variety of topics being covered. I've had a sort of breakthrough in pipe smoking...

pipesmagazine.com

Ironically enough, from my post:

Packing is actually kind of hard to screw up. I mean you really have to put some elbow grease into it to pack too tightly. And, I don't think there's such a thing as packing too loosely. Your intuition is likely correct. I believe that the bigger issue is tamping. Which leads me to...

I don't think this is necessarily wrong, but in my recent experience, packing lightly can get you more flavor and less moisture. Someone mentioned Jiminks said this same thing, which I was unaware of. Take that as you wish.

 

[lithicus]

When I started smoking a pipe, there were no rules. There was no internet. There were no pipe gurus....unless you knew one personally.
We just learned by trial and error.
In the late 1990s when I started with the online message boards, I believe my most often thought was, "well duh".
It must have been 2008 or so that I first heard of the "Frank Method". After hearing about it, I thought, "well duh, how else would you pack a pipe." When I started in 1987 it probably took me 3-4 bowls to learn to gravity feed the bowl, then a light push on top. My first pipe was WAY too tight and burned and tasted horrible. My thought was, "pack it lighter dummy". Thats how everyone I knew packed a pipe. Think about it. The old timers back then would dip their pipe in the pouch of tobacco. Lightly guide the tobacco in the pipe, then give it just enough of a tamp to keep the tobacco in the pipe. Thats the Frank Method, just not so god awful pretentious like they invented the wheel.
As for tamping, im a finger guy. If you burn your fingy, you're tamping too hard!! Just enough to smoosh the top ash to the ember. Otherwise I dump the ash and do not tamp. Its all kinda muscle memory now.
And NO, im not an old curmudgeon. I started piping at 17 years old, so im eccentric!!

I learned to fly fish and tie flies in this era of no internet. Everything was in books/magazines. Many of the videos I see on fly fishing today are "well duh" moments.

That being said, I too packed my first few pipes too tightly. The "well duh" for me was also "pack it lighter dummy". But, it wasn't until recently that I realized I needed to revisit the "gravity fill" / "pack it lighter dummy". When I first tried the gravity fill, I wasn't preparing my tobacco properly. This resulted in far too airy of a smoke and it was unpleasant. Now, my "gravity fill" has improved my experience in the next evolution of my own "well duh, what was I thinking" phase

And I like your take on the finger tamp! I have done this with other pipes in the past, before my tobacco pipe days (trying to be intentionally vague here lol). And, it connects you to the pipe in a way a tamper cannot. I might need to give this a shot with my tobacco pipe. But, I also have the tamper thing down pretty well now too! Decisions decisions lol Also, no judgement from me whether your an old curmudgeon or not

 

[lithicus]

welcome to life, nothing is as expected.

But seriously, my fav pipe is .75 by 1.8 deep. I can put a single flake of orlik in via fold an stuff, and it takes about 20 minutes to burn about 1/8" of flake.

I fill fill it loose with old gowrie fully rubbed, and it takes me an hour to smoke 2/3 of it.

I used to have a tiny pipe. .6 by 1.2. Fully loaded with gravity filled prince albert, i could smoke it down to the heel in 20 minutes. But loaded with half and half, i was looking at 40 minutes.

Now I have a peterson army filter 80s, its a .85 by 1.1 deep hole, I fill it with jocks mixture, and it last me an hour.

This is what I find so interesting. And I keep repeating it. I rub out all of my flakes pretty well. Pretty much to the point that they are ribbon cut. So either you are puffing away while I'm sipping, in which case I don't understand why I'm not getting as much flavor as you and why I'm getting more moisture than you. Or, I'm simply smoking a lot more tobacco in the same size pipe and that is why it's lasting me 2-3 hours. And, packing this much more tobacco into the same size pipe might have been what is causing me to lose flavor halfway through and get moisture in the bottom despite my sipping. Low and behold, I put less tobacco in the pipe, my smoke times normalized, flavor through and through, and little to no moisture when I am done.

 

[lithicus]

For what it's worth, here's a video of Achim Frank himself demonstrating the method:

I've tried it (one should try different methods to see what works for them), but the only part I do regularly anymore is to press the mound of tobacco from side to side with my thumbs. If it sinks into the pipe, great, if it doesn't seem to go anywhere, I figure the tobacco is about as dense as it should be and I'll pick some of it off.

I don't think this video is for someone like myself. But, I'm glad it helped you! And thank you for posting it. Maybe it will help others.

I have tried this method, or my attempt of it. But, it just wasn't for me. For 2 years, I found the 3 step method (baby, lady, man) most useful. I recently discovered that gravity fills give me the most pleasurable smoke. Whatever works for you!!

 

[lithicus]

I almost peed my pants watching that video. I dont even think that guy is taking himself seriously.

Its like directions to fry fish:

1. get fish
2. fry fish
3. eat fried fish

I won't lie, I got to about the 4th thumb exercise, realized this was part 1 of 3, and closed the video I'm roughly familiar with this method and I'm sure it works for some. But, it is not for me.

 

[lithicus]

We had a "Smokers corner" in our school. In the morning before classes, between classes, and at lunch you could go outside to smoke. There were picnic tables to sit at.
Ive never heard of another high school that did this. Rural schools are built different I guess.
You need to remember that the "legal" age to smoke here in NYS was 18 years old. But kids as young as 14 hung out at the "corner".
I very rarely went out there. My dad taught at the school, and I would not have disrespected him like that. Sometimes I snuck a few ciggie puffs when none of the teachers were looking. They would narc me out immediately!

We had a smoking gazebo for freshman and sophomore year but student smoking was banned prior to junior year.

The entire back walkway where the buses pulled up was the designated smoking area in my high school. That was early 80s.

These stories are priceless! I had nothing of the sort in high school, although I did start smoking cigarettes my sophomore year. I do remember my grandpa telling me that he started smoking cigarettes because his doctor recommended him to in order to calm his nerves. A different time for sure!

 

[bersekero]

I think we make things more complicated than they really are.
The Frank method is a pipe-packing technique where you lightly fill the bowl once, then press a large, cohesive plug of tobacco on top using gentle but firm pressure. It creates an even, airy pack that promotes a cool, consistent burn with minimal relights.
Variations on the final stage depend on the individual smoker, the tobacco and the bowl size.
Overthinking and over-explaining sometimes lead to more confusion.
Generally I try to keep things simple and skip unnecessary refinements that have nothing critical to offer. But I totally understand fellows who enjoy a 10 minute ritual preparing the pipe. It's like the erotic foreplay.

 

[Waning Embers]

The Frank method is a pipe-packing technique where you lightly fill the bowl once, then press a large, cohesive plug of tobacco on top using gentle but firm pressure.

Too complicated for my smoking. If I'm feeling too lazy to gravity fill I do a codger fill.

 

[bersekero]

Too complicated for my smoking. If I'm feeling too lazy to gravity fill I do a codger fill.

Yes but now my friend you have to explain what the codger fill is!
I think it is what Sig explained previously.

 

[bersekero]

The old timers back then would dip their pipe in the pouch of tobacco. Lightly guide the tobacco in the pipe, then give it just enough of a tamp to keep the tobacco in the pipe.

From here I learned to take a small amount out of the tin and let it dry before placing it in the pipe. If you dip the pipe into the tobacco, that means either all the tobacco is already dry, or you're putting moist tobacco into the pipe. Please explain. Apparently you have enough already dried tobacco in a pipe pouch so that the dipping is even possible.

 

[BingBong]

I agree that Group 3 size isn't standardized, but I thought it was something everyone could still relate too. FWIW, I would consider my Peterson 314 to be in that Group 3 size at ~0.75in chamber diameter and a little under 1.5in deep. I feel this is a fairly typical size for a medium Group 3 bowl. But, I digress.

If I pack a bowl of this size "normal" (ie; not light, not hard, by my definitions mind you), how I have been for nearly 2 years now, it would take me 2-3 hours to finish. No tongue bite. Flavor wouldn't be bad, but changed for the worse half way through. The bottom quarter borderline unpleasant. And while there wasn't a ton of moisture in the bottom, there would be moisture nonetheless. And I was running pipe cleaners through multiple times during my smoke. If I puffed on it fast enough, hard enough, to finish it in 45minutes or even an hour, I would have tongue bite, putrid smoke, and 1/4 bowl of wet dottle in the bottom. Didn't take long for me to learn this. Sip the pipe. No need to rush. No need to finish in an hour.

But one week, in a moment of reflection perhaps brought on by the testimonials of others, I felt maybe it was time to experiment again. Not overthinking it... Just reflecting on my 2 years of experience and wondering if it could be better. What have I learned? Why wasn't I enjoying the second half of the pipe as much as the first? Some truly enjoy how the flavor changed for the better throughout the smoke. Mine always changed for the worse. Could I adjust my cadence, tamping, or packing so I only have to run a pipe cleaner through mid-smoke on an off day?

This line of questioning and reflection lead me to believe I was using more tobacco than most, which lead me to this "gravity fill" (which I would consider a "light" pack), as well as this post. And, fwiw, now my experience aligns with your own. Group 3 in ~45 minutes to a little over an hour, although I'm not sitting there with a stop watch. But clearly not 2+ hours. Intense flavor practically the whole way through. Rarely getting too much moisture. So, I think I'm going down the right path for me. This is not to criticize you or your methods! Just to bring light to how subjective all of this stuff can be. You have to do what works for you as everyone treats their pipe differently.

Same results, really. I answered the door not long ago, pipe in mouth, and said to the caller "sorry about the pipe, just getting to the best bit", as I was into the final third and couldn't stop for anyone.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

Who is frank?

 

[Waning Embers]

Yes but now my friend you have to explain what the codger fill is!
I think it is what Sig explained previously.

Just holding the pipe in a pouch or jar and pushing tobacco into the chamber with your finger.

 

[Waning Embers]

If you dip the pipe into the tobacco, that means either all the tobacco is already dry, or you're putting moist tobacco into the pipe.

Like with gravity filling, moisture is made irrelevant. You can adjust the tightness of the packing while smoking to adjust for the moisture of the tobacco.

 

[Waning Embers]

Who is frank?

 

[bersekero]

Like with gravity filling, moisture is made irrelevant. You can adjust the tightness of the packing while smoking to adjust for the moisture of the tobacco.

Thank you again!

 

[bersekero]

Who is frank?

After I saw his videos I concluded that this Frank dude is a pipe smoker who likes to make things Very complicated for no apparent reason.