Have You Heard of Škija Ravnjak / Drina / Herzegovina Flor?

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rakovsky

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"Škija" (pronounced Shkiya) is a type of Oriental blend brought from Java in Indonesia to the former Yugoslavian republics. "Ravnjak" means "plain." It is still grown in the former Yugoslav republics, where it is considered high grade toabcco, and people have been smoking it in pipes for generations. It is also in a cigarette called "Drina".

Škija Ravnjak is also known as "Herzegovina Flor." Herzegovina makes up part of southern Bosnia, and "Flor" means "flower." Herzegovina Flor leaf was brought in the time of the Russian Empire to Crimea. Some places in Russia and Ukraine still grow it, such as the Dagestan company "Tabak Yuga. You can also get the plant's seeds online.

In 1912, Samuel Gabai from Crimea began making a filterless cigarette (a "papirosa") brand called Herzegovina Flor that used the leaf variety. His factory in Moscow was renamed the "Java" factory, and continued to make the brand until around the early 1990's.

gercegovina-flor.jpg
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The ones in this photo on the right were made in the 1980's.

The blend used first, top grade tobacco leaf.

I read that Herzegovina Flor papirosi used a mix of Herz. Flor leaf plus another leaf variety, as well as a light plum flavored topping. The leaf was harvested or processed in a selective way to make the smoke softer.

Max Frunze smoked one in the video review below. He said that the smoke was soft, light, luxurious, not at all harsh on the throat like a lot of common papirosi. He said that its smell reminded him of a VA and had a floral aroma.

The Auto-translate function to convert it to English worked fine for me.

Frunze's "floral" description reminded me that premium Soviet pipe blends used geranium oil. I got a geranium-rose smell from 1974-83 Soviet Kapitanskiy, as well for that matter from Petersen's Standard Mixture and Germain's #7. His description also reminded me that Kapitanskiy has a VA or VA-Oriental smell for reviewers.

Herzegovina Flor papirosi can double as a pipe blend, since Stalin put it in his pipes. But I don't know how much better that would be for pipe smoking than using normal pipe tobacco. I found "Kapitanskiy" to be light and soft, but not any easier to inhale into the lungs than typical VA pipe blends.

Herzegovina Flor papirosi are occasionally sold on online antique auctions, and a common price range seems to me to be $40-200 per box of 25 papirosi.

I found a photo of a Herzegovina Flor cigarette packet made in 2004 by the Java factory when the factory was owned by British American Tobacco. But since then BAT has closed the factory.

In the late 1990's, the Morshansk factory briefly made cigarettes by the same name in yellow packets, and Intertabac in Moldova currently makes cigarettes in black-green packets by this name. But neither of these cigarettes is really like the high grade Java factory ones.
 

rakovsky

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I have, supposedly it's what Stalin favored
It's neat that there are so many forum users familiar with the history of piping. Since it's a filterless cigarette brand, I wonder how it would be better or preferred over normal pipe tobacco. The brand is soft on the lungs. I'm guessing it would be lighter than pipe blends.
 
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kanse

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Great research.
It is worth noting that Royal Yacht which Stalin allegedly smoked is also topped with plum.
 
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Jul 28, 2016
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Thanks for this interesting read, back in the day, I smoked quite a lot of those Papirosy'( small portion of tobacco and long filtertube made out of carboard)I got them from governement owned stores called 'Beryozka where payments were made using foreign currency,also there were other higher quality traditional russian cigarettes of the very same type,as this Gertchgovina flor, to name a few , Tri Bogotyria, Sputnik, Kazak,and Troika, 100'' these were rarely seen at the regular soviet stores , as a side note , this type of cigaretttes were also produced in Finland starting from early 1880 till the mid 50ies ,but lately popularity of those did fade away with the arrive of modern cigarettes ,in case someone may have further interest in this subject, I will bring up a few brand names of Finnish equivalets, Malta Cigarettes, Kerho, Klubi 77 ,Fennia
 
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rakovsky

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Great research.
It is worth noting that Royal Yacht which Stalin allegedly smoked is also topped with plum.
Dear Kanse and @Zamora
UK and US officials gifted Stalin Dunhill, Edgeworth, and PA. However, I wasn't able to confirm which Dunhill blend they gifted him. A 1980's UK comedy showed a UK actress playing a UK actress giving him a R. Yacht tin to make him happy, and the actor expressively smiled. I suppose that it could have been an informal Dunhill product placement advertisement like they used to do in some old generation movies. I saw a few old Dunhill TV ads online and Wow, their style really reminded me of UK public screen film images.

May I please ask that we try to continue discussion on Stalin on a different thread? It is interesting and is part of the history of piping. But I noticed that other blend threads discussing him got closed and don't want that to happen here. I decided to mention him using the filterless cigarettes to show that they could double as pipe tobacco. In that sense, it's like Prince Albert, since PA's tins advertised PA as good for pipes or RYO.
 

rakovsky

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Thanks for this interesting read, back in the day, I smoked quite a lot of those Papirosy'( small portion of tobacco and long filtertube made out of carboard)I got them from governement owned stores called 'Beryozka where payments were made using foreign currency,also there were other higher quality traditional russian cigarettes of the very same type,as this Gertchgovina flor, to name a few , Tri Bogotyria, Sputnik, Kazak,and Troika, 100'' these were rarely seen at the regular soviet stores ,
Dear Paul,
Thanks for sharing. Were you able to get papirosi at foreign currency stores because you are Finnish? I'll avoid getting much off topic, but want to compliment you that it sounds like you have an interesting life story.

Which if any premium papirosa blends did you try? Soviet citizens had access to Herzegonia Flor sometime within the 70 years that the USSR sold the blend because the boxes were stamped with the amount in Rubles and Kopecks. But online while some people reported trying them, others said that they didn't happen to see them for sale. They were in limited supply as you noticed.

Back in the early 2000's, out of tobacco products, I mostly smoked cigarettes without inhaling them. I visited Russia then in my college years, and brought a carton of Winston Light Selects as presents because Russians have looked up to American cigarettes as better quality. Winston's advertised themselves as lacking additives, so for some US brands, the reputation I think is justified.

As a result, at that time, I wouldn't have thought to get Russian cigarettes. The exception was a White Sea Canal / Belomorkanal pack: I got a it out of historical interest as a souvenir. It was fine because I smoked it like a cigar.

The route to Herzegovina Flor as a niche interest is more indirect: I got interested in pipe blends as a connoisseur, and Herzegovina Flor turns out to be a classic blend that works in pipes.
 

rakovsky

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An article describing how the Morshansk factory continued making Herzegovina Flor in the 1990's says:
Modern products manufactured at the Morshansk tobacco factory are characterized by very good quality, although in terms of recipes they have little in common with the prototype. [ie. in common with the Herzegovina Flor brand made at the Java factory] Balkan tobacco is not supplied for them, other varieties are used that smokers like, but the taste, according to experts, is not the same.
 

rakovsky

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As I recall it was smooth yet stronger than those other ones, no harshness detected
That's interesting, Paul.
May I please ask if you recall a geranium smell or if it was more like a VA or Oriental leaf? I know that it's been a long time for you.
Thanks for sharing.
 

mingc

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Jun 20, 2019
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@rakovsky, I think I've mentioned to you in a different forum that the best cigarette I ever had was Soviet made. I've no idea what it was because the only letters on the pack were Cyrillic, which I do not read. As best as I recall, this was around the fall of the Berlin wall, in the late 80s. For comparison, I thought very highly of Sobranie Blacks and Cocktails and Three Castles. I thought the Soviet stick was tastier and smoother than those brands. I no longer smoke cigarettes and I've never had Soviet tobacco in a pipe.
 
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rakovsky

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@rakovsky, I think I've mentioned to you in a different forum that the best cigarette I ever had was Soviet made. I've no idea what it was because the only letters on the pack were Cyrillic, which I do not read. As best as I recall, this was around the fall of the Berlin wall, in the late 80s. For comparison, I thought very highly of Sobranie Blacks and Cocktails and Three Castles. I thought the Soviet stick was tastier and smoother than those brands. I no longer smoke cigarettes and I've never had Soviet tobacco in a pipe.
Thank you for answering me, Ming!
I would be glad to pick up the conversation again with you there!
If you recall the packet colors, art, or what any of the Cyrillic letters were, I could help. One of the most common was White Sea Canal, which had a drawing of Eastern Europe on its cover art. However, it was the lowest grade tobacco, whereas Herzegovina Flor filterless cigarettes had the highest grade.
The 1957 catalog with cover art for the packets is here:
 
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mingc

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Thank you for answering me, Ming!
I would be glad to pick up the conversation again with you there!
If you recall the packet colors, art, or what any of the Cyrillic letters were, I could help. One of the most common was White Sea Canal, which had a drawing of Eastern Europe on its cover art. However, it was the lowest grade tobacco, whereas Herzegovina Flor filterless cigarettes had the highest grade.
The 1957 catalog with cover art for the packets is here:
Unfortunately, I've no reliable memory of the label. And I can't discern between the different letters of the Cyrillic alphabet at all. The label may have been black and white or gold, or my mind may be playing tricks on me.

I remember being extremely surprised at how good it was. I was expecting something crude and rustic like a Gitane or Gauloises, but it turned out to be the complete opposite.
 
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rakovsky

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Elena Arsenievich wrote in her article on Herzegovina Flor that she heard that the tobacco for the filterless cigarettes (papirosy) came from Ljubinje between Trebinje and Stolac in Bosnia.
Her article is here: Герцеговина Флор - https://bih-ru.com/gercegovina-flor/
It is dry and sunny in Ljubinje, and it's grown tobacco since the 17th century.
She writes that they have several varieties of Herzegovina leaf, like "High", "Low," and "Plain" (Ravnjak), but not "Flor" as a variety. Instead, "Flor" refers to a high-end technical style of processing.

The stalk and all the veins are removed from the tobacco leaves, in professional language the "root and threads". What remains is the delicate tissue of the leaf, which is cut into the thinnest strips. The technology is labor-intensive, and "flor" is the most expensive of all Herzegovinian tobaccos. If regular tobacco in a village can be bought for 10 euros per kilogram, then flor is sold for 40 euros.

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Tobacco cutting machine

Connoisseurs say that the aroma of this tobacco is unique and the smoke is gentle.

Another article, "What did Stalin Smoke, What are Papisory Herzegovina Flor Famous for, and Why Are They so Called?" says that Samuel Gabai from Crimea made his factory in Moscow in 1864.
By 1911, the factory produced 30 types of cigarettes, including: “Herzegovina Flor” (highest grade), “Java”, “Ambassadorial”, “Tsarist”, “Solomka”, “Basma”, “Leda”, “Nega”.

К 1911 году фабрика выпускала 30 наименований папирос, среди которых: «Герцоговина Флор» (высший сорт), «Ява», «Посольские», «Царские», «Соломка», «Басма», «Леда», «Нега».
SOURCE:
In 1920, the factory was renamed the Java factory in connection with the arrival of a delegation from Indonesia.

In the late 19th century, Gabai
began to import fragrant raw materials from the exotic Indonesian island of Java. The products really excelled with a delicate aroma, and things took off. By the beginning of the new century, Samuil Gabai was already the owner of two production buildings, he changed the trademark, naming it in honor of his most popular cigarettes "Java". ... At the beginning of the second decade of the 20th century, a new product appeared in the assortment of "Java" - cigarettes "Herzegovina Flor".

He named the new brand of cigarettes in honor of the place of origin of the tobacco with which he filled his products. But in this case, the brand corresponded not only to the geographical location of the raw material plantations. In the Balkans, namely in Herzegovina, a special aromatic variety with a rich bouquet grew... In fact, the trademark corresponded to the botanical name of the plant Herzegovina Flor, and today the seeds of this tobacco are presented on the specialized market.

The Russian poet Mayakovsky made a stanza about Herzegovina Flor that the ad from 1921-1925 below used:

1541972704174038489.jpg

The boxes on the left are Herzegovina Flor.
The announcement says something like:
To any Papirosy
Will give a 'for'
Herzegovina Flor
Nowhere else like in
Mosselprom.
"Fora" means headstart, like in a race, but I think "For" might mean a headrush or buzz.
MosSelProm is an abbreviation meaning "Moscow Agro. Ind." The full name in English would be the Moscow Provincial Association of Enterprises for Processing Agricultural Products.

1541972480135485389.jpg

Mayakovsky

He mae a series of advertising poems about papirosy here:

Another one was
Factory "Java,"
Papirosy Amber
Cheaper than earlier,
Better than in old.

Фабрика «Ява»,
папиросы Янтарь
дешевле, чем раньше,
лучше, чем встарь.
 

rakovsky

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Unfortunately, I've no reliable memory of the label. And I can't discern between the different letters of the Cyrillic alphabet at all. The label may have been black and white or gold, or my mind may be playing tricks on me.

I remember being extremely surprised at how good it was. I was expecting something crude and rustic like a Gitane or Gauloises, but it turned out to be the complete opposite.
OK. Cyrillic is based on the Greek alphabet, like in college Fraternity house letters and Chemistry symbols:
Greek Names: Alpha, Beta/Vita, Gamma, Delta
Greek Font: A, B, Γ, Δ
Russian: A, Б / В, Г, Д

So for instance the Greek letter "Beta" used to be pronounced like an English B, but now it's pronounced like an English V.
Cyrillic has two letters based on the two sounds, Б (Greek Beta) and B (Greek Vita).

images

Someone recommended Dyubek to me as a good brand. In the drawing, it's dark brown, white and gold-like. I never had it, but it kind of reminds me of the colors you mentioned.

The USSR had a wide range for its papirosy blends, from top grade that sounds like what you are describing, to bottom grade, like White Sea Canals. So both your initial expectation (crude), nor what you described (smooth, great) were realistic.

I sent you a PM on the other forum back on Jan. 22. If you don't want to follow up with it, it's fine, I'm happy talking to you either place, whatever's best. It sounds like you have had interesting experiences.

Wishing you the best.
 
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ziv

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Elena Arsenievich wrote in her article on Herzegovina Flor that she heard that the tobacco for the filterless cigarettes (papirosy) came from Ljubinje between Trebinje and Stolac in Bosnia.
Her article is here: Герцеговина Флор - https://bih-ru.com/gercegovina-flor/
It is dry and sunny in Ljubinje, and it's grown tobacco since the 17th century.
She writes that they have several varieties of Herzegovina leaf, like "High", "Low," and "Plain" (Ravnjak), but not "Flor" as a variety. Instead, "Flor" refers to a high-end technical style of processing.



Another article, "What did Stalin Smoke, What are Papisory Herzegovina Flor Famous for, and Why Are They so Called?" says that Samuel Gabai from Crimea made his factory in Moscow in 1864.

In 1920, the factory was renamed the Java factory in connection with the arrival of a delegation from Indonesia.

In the late 19th century, Gabai


The Russian poet Mayakovsky made a stanza about Herzegovina Flor that the ad from 1921-1925 below used:

1541972704174038489.jpg

The boxes on the left are Herzegovina Flor.
The announcement says something like:

"Fora" means headstart, like in a race, but I think "For" might mean a headrush or buzz.
MosSelProm is an abbreviation meaning "Moscow Agro. Ind." The full name in English would be the Moscow Provincial Association of Enterprises for Processing Agricultural Products.

1541972480135485389.jpg

Mayakovsky

He mae a series of advertising poems about papirosy here:

Another one was

I'm pretty sure that "даст фор" in Mayakovsky's "poem" means "give a fora". "For" rhymes with "Flor", while "fora" doesn't. Mayakovsky was a part of futurist movement and as such, felt free to modify the words to fit them into rhyme meter.
 
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rakovsky

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In Elena Arsenievich's article, she talked about Ljublinje as if she visited it, and she posted a photo of a very old tobacco factory there.

I told @Bosnian piper that the region is special at a global level for tobacco connoisseurs, and that to get the blend, you would probably need to go to a market, store, or grower there. It would be exciting to travel to Sarajevo, then to Mostar, then to Ljublinje looking for Herzegovina Flor. A train goes from Sarajevo to Mostar, and a bus goes from Mostar to Stolac. But I imagine that a traveler would need a taxi or their own car to get to Ljublinje.

Ljubine-map.png

The red circle is for Ljublinje.

The Old Tobacco Factory is one of the special sights of the town