FVF - Too Much Age?

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Dublin Old Man

Might Stick Around
Aug 22, 2020
55
128
Dublin, Ohio
I just sampled a tin of Full Virginia Flake that I purchased at the Columbus pipe show last summer. It was dated 2007. Upon opening the tin, the seal was good, the flakes were dark in color, good moisture, and plenty of sugar crystals. Based upon my enjoyment of fresher FVF, I thought this is going to be fantastic. I was disappointed. It is not as bitey as fresh FVF but does not have much flavor. It appears that there are diminishing returns with aging tobacco too long.
 

Dublin Old Man

Might Stick Around
Aug 22, 2020
55
128
Dublin, Ohio
May 2, 2018
3,747
28,673
Bucks County, PA
Time should subdue the bite of a blend. Flavor should still be apparent. I figure a Virginia blend does really well with 10-12 yrs of age on it. The melding takes place & the blend should become smoother & the flavors more round and slightly subtle…but still delicious. Past that, it’s anyones guess how the flavor holds up IMHO. There are blends where fresh is preferred. Aging tobacco is for experimentation. However, FVF has been a good one to age as many folks prefer it with 5 yrs on it. Sorry the tin of FVF didn’t treat you right. ☕
 
Wines have the same results. Because something improves with a few years on it, does not mean that decades will make them even better. Most wines that do very well with a few years on them will start to diminish after 10 years. People will still buy wines with decades, even hundreds of years on them... and they are shit. I've been to a few uncorkings where I realized that someone got screwed, or just didn't know as much as they let on they knew.
When I hear someone go on about a certain wine the bought from 1970-somthing, I know that they are just full of shit.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,623
44,833
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
A lot depends on the conditions under which the tobacco has aged. That's the risk of buying aged tins from anonymous sources. You don't know what you're going to get. Last year's Cringle Flake featured Virginias that had been aged for 20 years and it is spectacular. Those Virginias were housed and aged by a commercial tobacco supplier and blender, so conditions would have been kept optimal.
I've had very aged Virginias that were spectacular and very aged Virginias that were zombie vomit, same blend. The difference could be how they were kept for those decades, batch differences, something different in the tin with the tobacco. Burleys seem to hold up best in my experience.
Tobacco is natural, not high tech and clean rooms. It's processing is largely a natural process, but hardly a sanitary one. Like anything that's natural, results will vary.
That's the chance you take, whether you buy tins on the market or cellar them yourself. There's no guarantee that the contents will be good over a long haul.
 

lraisch

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 4, 2011
614
1,199
Granite Falls, Washington state
Wines have the same results. Because something improves with a few years on it, does not mean that decades will make them even better. Most wines that do very well with a few years on them will start to diminish after 10 years. People will still buy wines with decades, even hundreds of years on them... and they are shit. I've been to a few uncorkings where I realized that someone got screwed, or just didn't know as much as they let on they knew.
When I hear someone go on about a certain wine the bought from 1970-somthing, I know that they are just full of shit.
Oh I don't know. I had a 1970 "Les Forts De Latour" that was absolutely sublime. {Of course that was in 1976!)
 

alaskanpiper

Enabler in Chief
May 23, 2019
9,348
42,241
Alaska
aging tip only liquor seems to age better each year. Or at least gets smoother and more infused in from whatever barrel they put it in. Oh an once it's in the bottle the aging is done done done.
Even this is not always the case. The aged liquor you buy in the bottle is carefully selected (and often blended) from different barrels that were aged in different conditions. Even it's location in a warehouse can dramatically change it over time. Expert producers complete this process of determination before it ever hits the bottle.

What becomes of the lesser barrels you ask? Who knows, but my guess is:

scizzotch.jpg

There is simply no accounting for nature. As any good hunter will tell you, nature can serve you the greatest wins in the least likely of conditions, and the greatest defeats in what should be optimal ones.
 
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anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
15,677
29,393
45
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
Even this is not always the case. The aged liquor you buy in the bottle is carefully selected (and often blended) from different barrels that were aged in different conditions. Even it's location in a warehouse can dramatically change it over time. Expert producers complete this process of determination before it ever hits the bottle.

What becomes of the lesser barrels you ask? Who knows, but my guess is:

View attachment 138310

There is simply no accounting for nature. As any good hunter will tell you, nature can serve you the greatest wins in the least likely of conditions, and the greatest defeats in what should be optimal ones.
though if you leave it under the right conditions for a long enough time it will mellow certain aspects and take on more of a certain flavors. Basically if there is an upper limit it's not been over shot so terribly that you get a post like this. :)
 

alaskanpiper

Enabler in Chief
May 23, 2019
9,348
42,241
Alaska
though if you leave it under the right conditions for a long enough time it will mellow certain aspects and take on more of a certain flavors. Basically if there is an upper limit it's not been over shot so terribly that you get a post like this. :)
True. The point I was making was along the lines of what @sablebrush52 mentioned, in that the conditions the tobacco tin has been aged in can make a dramatic difference. Just making the point that the same is true of liquor.
 

anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
15,677
29,393
45
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
True. The point I was making was along the lines of what @sablebrush52 mentioned, in that the conditions the tobacco tin has been aged in can make a dramatic difference. Just making the point that the same is true of liquor.
oh it certainly is and is nifty additional cost in aged liquor. Suddenly Louis 13 doesn't seem so over priced, when you start thinking about all the costs of aging something that long (and assume people will still care about your business or it will survive in the future).
 

alaskanpiper

Enabler in Chief
May 23, 2019
9,348
42,241
Alaska
oh it certainly is and is nifty additional cost in aged liquor. Suddenly Louis 13 doesn't seem so over priced, when you start thinking about all the costs of aging something that long (and assume people will still care about your business or it will survive in the future).
Yes, exactly. This is why most young american "craft distilleries" are selling whiskeys that are quite young, and thus, often not as quality as those from scottish or american distilleries that have been around since 1790. Some are beginning to break that mold though, which is encouraging.
 
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anotherbob

Lifer
Mar 30, 2019
15,677
29,393
45
In the semi-rural NorthEastern USA
Yes, exactly. This is why most young american "craft distilleries" are selling whiskeys that are quite young, and thus, often not as quality as those from scottish or american distilleries that have been around since 1790. Some are beginning to break that mold though, which is encouraging.
makes sense. Hard to sell investors on our return is going to be decades later.
 

alaskanpiper

Enabler in Chief
May 23, 2019
9,348
42,241
Alaska
makes sense. Hard to sell investors on our return is going to be decades later.
There are whole companies built on the scalability of that exact notion:

 

Peter Turbo

Lifer
Oct 18, 2021
1,157
8,293
CT, USA
Yeah I've had mixed experiences with aged tins. I have some Veermaster from ~2010 that is amazing. I have a couple VA based blends from Paul Olsen from at least 2010 (I suspect they are older) and they are terrible, both bite me no matter what I do and aren't packing much flavor either. I also have some Dan Tobacco VA Slices from around the same time which is super underwhelming as well, isn't bitey at least. There's plenty of stuff I like fresh.
 
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