Your Arizona CCW Permit

[Sobrbiker]

My Redhawk re-destroyed my elbow, but I put 1200+ rounds of full tilt round through it in the year and a half I had it. I’m kind of like Kimber, I don’t think anything’s broken in until after at least 500rds…
My go-to full size woods gun now is a DA/SA 10mm poly EAA that I can get twice as many aimed rounds on target under duress in the same amount of seconds as I could with a 44 and only give up <10% energy on target.

 

[DesertDan]

When it comes to handguns, I am primarily a wheel gunner and lean heavily in the .38/.357 caliber offerings. I particularly like the S&W Model 19 but carried a S&W 442 daily for years. I have a Ruger Blackhawk in .44 mag that I do enjoy and hunt with occasionally.
Almost all of my autoloaders are 1911 pattern pistols.

 

[bullet08]

Why not just open carry? Seen too many people with guns, it no longer bothers me.

 

[brian64]

240gr hard cast Keith SWC “Skeeter” loads (I use HP38, not Unique though) are what I too (along with my orthopedic surgeon) prefer to shoot.

I use HP38 as well for 44 special...H110 for the magnum loads. I'm planning to work some special loads up with Blue Dot though and see how that goes.

The 629's:

 

[brian64]

Why not just open carry? Seen too many people with guns, it no longer bothers me.

Open carry is fine for anyone who wants to do that...I see it fairly often. There is pro and con to both, but I normally don't because I just don't want to draw attention to myself.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

Those are some good looking wheel guns.

I could have guessed that yall old codgers loved revolvers.

Probably love 1911s too...

I own a Heritage Arms 22lr, and a Charter Arms 38.

The Heritage 22 is pretty much junk, and the Charter 38 is just too small to shoot comfortably.

I've never fooled with any nice revolvers though.

IMO 9mm is king.

 

[Briar Lee]

Why not just open carry? Seen too many people with guns, it no longer bothers me.

Since statehood, even before, its legal to open carry in Missouri —-except:
Xxxx

Prosecutors in Springfield, Mo., have filed formal charges of making a terrorist threat in the second degree against a 20-year-old man arrested for wearing body armor and carrying a loaded rifle — and more than 100 rounds of ammunition — at a Walmart store Thursday.

Officers had rushed to the Walmart Neighborhood Market, responding to calls of a potential shooter at the store where they encountered Dmitriy Andreychenko. Afterwards, police said they believe he didn't want to kill anyone; instead, he wanted to cause chaos.

Andreychenko had a slightly different story.

"I wanted to know if that Walmart honored the 2nd Amendment," he is quoted as saying in a police statement. He also said he did not expect people in Missouri to react they way they did. "I understand if we were somewhere else like New York or California, people would freak out."

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/09/749763786/rifle-carrying-man-arrested-after-causing-panic-at-walmart-in-missouri

Xxxx

One other reason to keep your manhood and your pistol under your clothes, is that in college, I had two friends who were blessed with a natural muscle builder’s body. Both were about six foot four.

Every time they went to a bar, sone other big muscle guy would come up to them and start a fight.

Just because it’s legal, doesn’t mean it’s wise.

 

[brian64]

Those are some good looking wheel guns.

I could have guessed that yall old codgers loved revolvers.

Probably love 1911s too...

I own a Heritage Arms 22lr, and a Charter Arms 38.

The Heritage 22 is pretty much junk, and the Charter 38 is just too small to shoot comfortably.

I've never fooled with any nice revolvers though.

IMO 9mm is king.

Yeah I do love wheel guns…as I said previously, I just prefer the simplicity of a revolver…but it’s just personal preference.

As for 9mm, it’s roughly the same as .38 special…and as I commented earlier, I’m of the view that a heavier bullet is ideal for a self defense round. But of course with the 9 you have higher capacity…which may count for a lot…but there have been stories over the years of people being hit with .38 or 9mm and they just keep coming.

Personally I consider .45 auto to be the best self-defense round…44 special is essentially the same thing.

 

[Richmond B. Funkenhouser]

Yeah I do love wheel guns…as I said previously, I just prefer the simplicity of a revolver…but it’s just personal preference.

As for 9mm, it’s roughly the same as .38 special…and as I commented earlier, I’m of the view that a heavier bullet is ideal for a self defense round. But of course with the 9 you have higher capacity…which may count for a lot…but there have been stories over the years of people being hit with .38 or 9mm and they just keep coming.

Personally I consider .45 auto to be the best self-defense round…44 special is essentially the same thing.

It stands to reason that a bigger pill is more effective. "Knockdown power" must be real.

Somehow though, back in the day, I dropped quite a few deer right where they stood, with a Ruger 10/22.

Main reason that I'll choose a 9mm is because the ammo is cheap... I mean, cheaper. None of it is cheap enough.

If I can afford to shot a gun a lot, I'll have more faith in that gun.

If I remember correctly the last .38s I bought were over a dollar, and the last 9mms I bought were 23 cents a piece.

 

[brian64]

It stands to reason that a bigger pill is more effective. "Knockdown power" must be real.

Somehow though, back in the day, I dropped quite a few deer right where they stood, with a Ruger 10/22.

Main reason that I'll choose a 9mm is because the ammo is cheap... I mean, cheaper. None of it is cheap enough.

If I can afford to shot a gun a lot, I'll have more faith in that gun.

If I remember correctly the last .38s I bought were over a dollar, and the last 9mms I bought were 23 cents a piece.

Absolutely…ammo cost is the primary reason I reload...I enjoy doing it as well, but on average I shoot about every 6 weeks, and good factory ammo is just too damn expensive.

 

[Sobrbiker]

Now that we’ve pivoted to ammunition…
I was a “bigger is better” guy before the nineties, when ammunition got better, I got into a hobby that put me in proximity to lots of LE shooters, and I applied actual research to my decision.
The most important aspect of any lethal encounter is my signature line on all the guns forums I participated in for a long time:
“You cannot miss fast enough to win a gunfight”.
This applies to the weapon, mode of carry, shooter’s ability, and ammunition.
Whatever gun you can shoot best, have confidence in, and will have with you when you need it is the best for you, period.
Decades of research show the stopping power of 9, 40, 45 to be equal statistically when placed in the vitals.
The real surprise is that with a handgun, the vast minority of wounds are fatal.
Learn to shoot well, with your “off” hand as much as your dominant hand, and work on mindset and application of skills.
If you have to shoot, shoot until the threat stops.
Plaintiff attorney: “why did you shoot my client eight times?”
A: “because he was still presenting a threat that made me fear for my life after I shot him seven times”.
To quote the great Clint Smith, “handguns put holes in things, rifles put holes through things, and shotguns rip chunks of sh*t off and throw them on the floor”.

Any successful job is achieved by considering the job and picking the best tool you have at hand for that job.

Revo vs auto? Same stuff as cob vs meer.

 

[Sobrbiker]

I use HP38 as well for 44 special...H110 for the magnum loads. I'm planning to work some special loads up with Blue Dot though and see how that goes.

The 629's:

View attachment 369328

I still have a few pounds of old Belgium vintage AA#9 that is used for all my “full tilt” 44 and 10mm, and loaded heavy hard cast and jhps in both.

 

[dd57chevy]

Why not just open carry? Seen too many people with guns, it no longer bothers me.

JMO , it seems foolish . OC's appear to be trying to draw attention to themselves "Look at me , I'm in charge here" .

It can also be perceived as a challenge .
10-12 years ago I had a divorced mom for a neighbor with a 18-19 year old son who had excessive teenagerness .
He was drinking at a small town carnival & decided that he needed a county deputy's Glock .
He grabbed it out of the deputy's holster & waved it in his face ........
He shortly gave it back (the deputy actually knew him) & was arrested .

If you dare people to be stupid , they will often oblige............

 

[brian64]

Now that we’ve pivoted to ammunition…
I was a “bigger is better” guy before the nineties, when ammunition got better, I got into a hobby that put me in proximity to lots of LE shooters, and I applied actual research to my decision.
The most important aspect of any lethal encounter is my signature line on all the guns forums I participated in for a long time:
“You cannot miss fast enough to win a gunfight”.
This applies to the weapon, mode of carry, shooter’s ability, and ammunition.
Whatever gun you can shoot best, have confidence in, and will have with you when you need it is the best for you, period.
Decades of research show the stopping power of 9, 40, 45 to be equal statistically when placed in the vitals.
The real surprise is that with a handgun, the vast minority of wounds are fatal.
Learn to shoot well, with your “off” hand as much as your dominant hand, and work on mindset and application of skills.
If you have to shoot, shoot until the threat stops.
Plaintiff attorney: “why did you shoot my client eight times?”
A: “because he was still presenting a threat that made me fear for my life after I shot him seven times”.
To quote the great Clint Smith, “handguns put holes in things, rifles put holes through things, and shotguns rip chunks of sh*t off and throw them on the floor”.

Any successful job is achieved by considering the job and picking the best tool you have at hand for that job.

Revo vs auto? Same stuff as cob vs meer.

Yeah, the debate on best self defense round will go on forever. I definitely agree it depends on what the individual is comfortable with. I think the heavier round stands a better chance of knocking someone off their feet...especially if it were a large individual and perhaps on some type of substance.

Which brings to mind why the .45 was developed to begin with:

While it was regarded as a well-rounded weapon for common use, some soldiers felt that a .38 caliber bullet was not powerful enough for combat purposes. The predictions would prove true years later, when American soldiers attempted to subdue the rebellious Moros in the southern Philippines. Bolo-wielding Moro warriors, often under the influence of opium, were seemingly invulnerable to the Colt revolver. News reports in the States told of charging natives withstanding five to six slugs before finally collapsing, but not before killing the soldier desperately trying to reload his revolver.

M1911 .45 Caliber Pistol - The Army Historical Foundation

In 1906, Army Ordnance publicly released their specifications to gun manufacturers eager to land a government contract. At the time, the only effective automatics were 7.63mm or 9mm pistols, neither of which had the desired stopping power.

armyhistory.org

There was a story just last year in the news about a woman in her 80's who was a victim of a home invasion robbery. The perp had a 9mm and she had a .357. As I recall, I'm pretty sure it said she was hit 3 times and him once. He died, she lived. In that case it wasn't the weight but the velocity.

 

[Brad H]

Daily carry
Glock 26 (with clip draw)
Winchester 127 grain +p+
extended magazine grip in the gun, 2 reloads (full size glock 17 mags)

9MM is just fine for me. Its mostly about shot placement, and whom gets shots on target first.

I have never had any REAL issues while concealing carry. I have had a few officers not know the laws when it came to concealed carry in Louisiana. I politely educate them, and all has been good. Half the time officers dont even ask to see or inspect my gun.
Not sure about other states, but I know that LA can run your drivers license and it will show if you maintain a carry permit or not.

 

[Briar Lee]

The first really effective defensive handgun (that was belt portable) was the 36 Colt Navy 1851.

I own one. Like Elmer Keith wrote, it’s an effective and useful handgun about equal to a modern 38 Special.

I like my 44 Colt 1861 and 44 Remington 1858 better. Using 35 grains of FFF they are in the same category as a 44 Special Skeeter load. I like 25 grains much better.

If you don’t have a cap and ball revolver and want one, you want a steel framed one, and the 1858 is the best one, except the modern Ruger 1858 type Old Army, the best of all.

 

[HawkeyeLinus]

@telescopes - I'd read about Riverside and the more encouraging atmosphere on this subject. Love the area for many other reasons, used to visit when my parents were able to spend time there in the winter, may land there someday, we'll see.

To an earlier point, I generally don't carry - if I'm going to do it, there's a level of commitment to practice I just don't have time to make for a 24/7 mindset at this point. Doesn't mean a handgun won't accompany me in some contexts. And won't dive into the weeds of defense at home or otherwise. A few shotguns, an old Model 94 Trapper, an old 9422, various semi-autos and revolvers - not shy of options but not going to get into applications.

I have a fondness for very old and classic revolvers - have some 50s era S&W revolvers in a few different calibers, some are "pre" models, all in super condition, a classic snubby Colt Diamondback and they're all fun to shoot. A late 60s Walther just because, lol, and some semi-autos, 9mm and .380. Shooting is a lot of fun and I've always enjoyed it and that's really my focus, the sport of it. Kind of like pipes, some come and go and I've got four or five I'll be selling soon - don't need 'em, don't use 'em and unlike pipes, looking at those I see $$ sitting around not being put to work, haha.

 

[Sobrbiker]

Yeah, the debate on best self defense round will go on forever. I definitely agree it depends on what the individual is comfortable with. I think the heavier round stands a better chance of knocking someone off their feet...especially if it were a large individual and perhaps on some type of substance.

Which brings to mind why the .45 was developed to begin with:

While it was regarded as a well-rounded weapon for common use, some soldiers felt that a .38 caliber bullet was not powerful enough for combat purposes. The predictions would prove true years later, when American soldiers attempted to subdue the rebellious Moros in the southern Philippines. Bolo-wielding Moro warriors, often under the influence of opium, were seemingly invulnerable to the Colt revolver. News reports in the States told of charging natives withstanding five to six slugs before finally collapsing, but not before killing the soldier desperately trying to reload his revolver.

M1911 .45 Caliber Pistol - The Army Historical Foundation

In 1906, Army Ordnance publicly released their specifications to gun manufacturers eager to land a government contract. At the time, the only effective automatics were 7.63mm or 9mm pistols, neither of which had the desired stopping power.

armyhistory.org

There was a story just last year in the news about a woman in her 80's who was a victim of a home invasion robbery. The perp had a 9mm and she had a .357. As I recall, I'm pretty sure it said she was hit 3 times and him once. He died, she lived. In that case it wasn't the weight but the velocity.

All that changed with the 357…
Every cop I know, and I know quite a few SAU/SWAT types, says the 357mag and then the 357Sig are the only rounds that are nearly always one shot stoppers.
Short of 45-70 there’s no real “knock down” unless heavy for caliber full tilt loads hit resistance (body armor/dense bone). Hydrostatic shock will drop perps. Too bad the 10mm had to be neutered to the 40SW…
Then there’s the whole deal that mag capacity did not foster better shooting. Pre auto loader days the average gunfight expended 5.5rds, and after high cap 9’s became ubiquitous it jumped to 15+.

Shoot the biggest you can reliably handle effectively and will carry. Dirty Harry was fiction, and flooded the market with barely shot Model 29’s

 

[Sobrbiker]

The first really effective defensive handgun (that was belt portable) was the 36 Colt Navy 1851.

I own one. Like Elmer Keith wrote, it’s an effective and useful handgun about equal to a modern 38 Special.

I like my 44 Colt 1861 and 44 Remington 1858 better. Using 35 grains of FFF they are in the same category as a 44 Special Skeeter load. I like 25 grains much better.

If you don’t have a cap and ball revolver and want one, you want a steel framed one, and the 1858 is the best one, except the modern Ruger 1858 type Old Army, the best of all.

 

[brian64]

Shoot the biggest you can reliably handle effectively and will carry.

I definitely agree with that.

And It’s interesting if cops all like .357 because they all seem to be issued 9mm these days.

As for Dirty Harry, it’s amusing how his name inevitably comes up in these conversations LOL.