Why Do Cigars Smell Different?
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I like the smell of pipes and I like cigars. Just curious why they smell so completely different.
Cigar leaf is fermented or color cured in a different way than most other forms of tobacco are. You can run a Tennesse or Kentucky burley through the same process as a "traditional" cigar leaf, and you will get some of the same flavor notes... although, of course, it won't be exactly the same.
But, Semois is a leaf that is used in all uses of tobaccos from cigars to pipes, and it has some of those cigar notes in there, with it just getting the air curing process, no fancy fermentation processes.
But, Semois is a leaf that is used in all uses of tobaccos from cigars to pipes, and it has some of those cigar notes in there, with it just getting the air curing process, no fancy fermentation processes.
I've been smoking cigars for nearly 30 years now, pipes too, and asked myself this question years ago, and it all has to do with the way the cigar leaves are grown and aged...it's a far more complex process than for pipe tobacco. Cigars have three parts, the filler, the binder, and the wrapper. For an example of how different the process is, let's take the wrapper. A quality wrapper is a very thin leaf that is many times actually grown under a cheese cloth type material out in the fields--they'll literally have acres upon acres of the cloth stretched across the crops; allows some sunlight in but not as much as a full sun tobacco crop like your typical pipe tobacco is grown. Some will say that this actually produces most of the cigar flavor, although I don't necessarily agree with that. Also, think about the way a cigar is constructed. Quality cigars are constructed using the complete leaf...even the filler is nothing but folded up whole leaves...and the moisture content is around 70% as well...all this together simply produces a much different taste from a pipe, but this is also why a quality cigar (like the Griffen's I smoke) can cost a lot more money than a pipe equivalent amount...the ones I smoke cost around $15 each when purchased separately, and about $7 each when you buy a box.
Not necessarily, it mostly depends on how and where it's grown. A virginia leaf grown in the states will have a very different flavor than a virginia leaf grown in the Dominican Republic. Most quality wrappers are whats called a Connecticut leaf, not much different from burley from what I understand, but grown in Venezuela under cheese cloth will give it a completely different and more complex flavor.
I think I'm starting to understand a little better. Thanks! My dad is trying to get off the cigarettes, he has tried a pipe but I dont think its going to be his thing. We have started to enjoy a cigar in the afternoon together and I'm trying to learn more about them. I dont think a $15 cigar every afternoon is going fall within our budget. :D
30 years... you're getting there. :
: Where it is grown is not as important as where the strain was allowed to develop. I know, confusing. Semois was developed through years of adjusting to the environment in Belgium, but I can grow the same thing in Alabama using the seed stock from there. I just can't keep using my own seeds from that first stock from Belgium, or it becomes something else after years and years. But, that has nothing to do with this difference from other types of tobaccos.
We had some botany folks tell us that tobaccos are pretty much all the same genetically, but like a chihuahua and a great dane are the same, but different based on the cultivar.
You can grow any cultivar pretty much anywhere on the planet, but the curing of the cigar leaf is going to be different. In the tobacco processing world, it has different names; color cure, socialization, fermentation, etc... without this process the cigar leaf just tastes like a burley. But, this adds that oily flavor we think of as cigar leaf.
But, this is just what separates it (cigar leaf) from other burleys. All of that other stuff that economicsfish mentions is what separates one cigar leaf from other cigar leafs.
: Where it is grown is not as important as where the strain was allowed to develop. I know, confusing. Semois was developed through years of adjusting to the environment in Belgium, but I can grow the same thing in Alabama using the seed stock from there. I just can't keep using my own seeds from that first stock from Belgium, or it becomes something else after years and years. But, that has nothing to do with this difference from other types of tobaccos. We had some botany folks tell us that tobaccos are pretty much all the same genetically, but like a chihuahua and a great dane are the same, but different based on the cultivar.
You can grow any cultivar pretty much anywhere on the planet, but the curing of the cigar leaf is going to be different. In the tobacco processing world, it has different names; color cure, socialization, fermentation, etc... without this process the cigar leaf just tastes like a burley. But, this adds that oily flavor we think of as cigar leaf.
But, this is just what separates it (cigar leaf) from other burleys. All of that other stuff that economicsfish mentions is what separates one cigar leaf from other cigar leafs.
I'm going to have to try some semois now too. Im not crazy about cigar flavor, I mean its ok. But I love the room note! I have noticed some pipe tobacco when smoked a little too hot or fast can take on a cigar like flavor to me. Royal Yacht comes to mind. Cosmic, I know the briary has a walk in humidor, I assume the have a pretty good selection. I need to get by there sometime and chat them up.
The Briary always has something good. They don't have Semois though. We will have to meet up there sometime, and I will bring you some Semois. I have a small amount left from this year's crop, what didn't get lost to the crop mold.
LOL, regardless of the debate on how it's made, $15 per cigar is just that, per cigar if you buy them individually. These are my cigars and where I buy them https://www.famous-smoke.com/griffins+no.+300+cigars/item+12182 . At this price, it comes out to $6.52 per cigar. The one thing you really want to stay away from are machine made cigars like generics and/or Dutch Master's etc--these are simply glorified cigarettes with paper binder...there are a ton of hand made cigars that you can even get for under $5 per with a box.
In all, it sounds like quality time with the old man...peruse the website for other brands I just posted and experiment with 3 or 5 packs (not a whole box). The smaller packs are more expensive per cigar (and you'll probably be subject to shipping and handling) but it'll be fun and something you and your old man can do together.
Bring him to the pipe club. We have a lot of members who just smoke cigars, and we have had cigar reps come and talk to us also.
Oh yeah, its great quality time with my dad. He doesnt work anymore. A life of working at dynamite plants and pouring iron plus a motorcycle wreck has taken a toll on his knees. He picks my kids up from school and I hang with him, have a smoke, a beer and solve the worlds problems for about 2 hours every afternoon. I'm about the only adult male bonding he gets anymore.
Hmmm, so I'm just curious, are you saying that soil acidity, climate, humidity, etc., do not make a difference in the way any particular tobacco seed tastes? You're saying that Cuban cigars got their popularity because of their curing process and not their growing environment such as soil type, etc? LOL whatever you want to believe I guess is fine with me lol
By the way, you may want to read this https://www.cigarworld.com/education/cigars-101/non-cuban-vs.-cuban-cigars/ in particular, the last paragraph where they say
"Benji also points out that the tobacco’s flavor is derived from the soil and the climate of a particular location before it is harvested. Some Caribbean and Central American countries have soils very similar to Cuba’s, and although not exactly the same, they can produce tobaccos that are equally rich in flavor, strength and depth. But to be clear, because the soil imparts the flavor, nothing tastes like a Cuban cigar other than a Cuban cigar, just as nothing tastes like a Nicaraguan cigar except a Nicaraguan cigar."
"Benji also points out that the tobacco’s flavor is derived from the soil and the climate of a particular location before it is harvested. Some Caribbean and Central American countries have soils very similar to Cuba’s, and although not exactly the same, they can produce tobaccos that are equally rich in flavor, strength and depth. But to be clear, because the soil imparts the flavor, nothing tastes like a Cuban cigar other than a Cuban cigar, just as nothing tastes like a Nicaraguan cigar except a Nicaraguan cigar."
I didn't say that at all. In fact, I would say that everything has an affect in the way the seed tastes. You haven't been here long, but we have discussions like, how the shape of the inside of a pipe chamber has an affect on the way a blend tastes. And, guys will swears there is no difference in the way a blend tastes in completely different shaped chambers. So, if such a drastic change in flavors is not observable, I would say that yes there are drastic changes in flavors that happen with different environments, but your average Joe from the forum probably isn't going to detect a difference. It won't make a Havana 608 seed variety confused with a samsun variety. It's not going to be that drastic the first year.
Hit up Jitterbugdude for this conversation. We are both tobacco farmers, but he has way more experience than me.
But, none of this is about what the OP is asking.
He merely wanted to know why a cigar tastes different than the other leafs more commonly used in pipesmoking. Cigar processing garbledegook had nothing to do with the answer. The answer is the process.
Virginia leaf is processed in the color cure fermentation just like cigar leaf, (different companies call this different things, but it's all really the same thing) and fresh out of the flue, red virginias have an oily cigar note too.
But, all of that that you were talking about is what separates one cigar leaf from another cigar leaf. Not, what separates all cigar leaf from other leaf. Does that make sense?
I completely understood his question. The type of seed (e.g., Connecticut versus Virginia) and where it is grown is exactly what makes cigars different from pipe tobacco, otherwise we'd have huge amounts of pipe tobacco coming from near the equator (i.e., higher acidity).
I do certainly agree that there is a curing process in both pipe and cigar tobacco, but again, that fundamental cigar flavor that you get comes from the seed and soil...otherwise we would be simply growing cuban seed/hybrid tobacco in Kentucky and making cigars out of it, rather than in the Dominican Republic.
I do certainly agree that there is a curing process in both pipe and cigar tobacco, but again, that fundamental cigar flavor that you get comes from the seed and soil...otherwise we would be simply growing cuban seed/hybrid tobacco in Kentucky and making cigars out of it, rather than in the Dominican Republic.
Let me clarify, what I'm trying to say is that if it was all in the fermentation process, which can be duplicated anywhere in the world, then where the seed is grown wouldn't matter, would it? In fact, theoretically, we should be able to turn pipe tobacco into cigar tobacco by adjusting the fermentation process, right? But we can't...that's my point. In other words, where and how the cigar tobacco is grown is exactly what gives it its different flavor from pipe tobacco.
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