What's the Deal Here?

[nathaniel]

I hope this isn't offensive. If it is, MODS, feel free to delete! ::
But here goes: So anyone who keeps up with the news and the politics of the world has likely noticed that marijuana is on an upswing legally. What with the medical prescription stuff and now even some places are starting to legalize it recreationally, like Denver I believe. And yet, tobacco is quickly seeming to go the way of the three footed chicken-bear. So what's the deal here?
I mean, tobacco has done loads for stabilizing countries in their beginnings and and still maintains them through the outrageous taxes imposed on its sales. But yet, the stereotypical lazy and burnt-out pothead image is somehow gaining way on the legal front while there is seemingly no recollection of the great faces of pipe-smokers throughout history who've done wonders for the world.
So what are the marijuana users doing differently than the tobacco users to get themselves supported politically?

 

[juni]

I guess it is more popular with the young people and there are many many more users of it than pipe smokers.

 

[misterrogers]

I don't know, but it makes me sick. Don't get me wrong, I may of taken part in it once in my life, and needless to say I told my mother because I felt like a piece of crap for going behind her back. There is nothing wrong with trying, it's part of growing up I say. Hell, I know it does help some people who really do have medical issues. But what really burns me up are the "doctors" that give it out. I swear to you, I was in Californa with family, and doctors would ask you to come in, saying "I think you have glaucoma" or something. But even worse are the people who smoke it every day or to "escape" from the hardships of life.
"Hey man, like, smoking weed is like, totally good for you. Not like that poison you're smoking, like man. Weeds all natural, not like your big company tobacco man."
Not even kidding, some piece of shit at college said this to me once. I almost blew a gasket. Here is some kid, at a 40K a year school, smoking weed to "escape" his "hard life." Jesus, I think my blood pressure is going up just thinking about it.

 

[hobie1dog]

Talk about opening up a can of worms....I'm standing back from this one and waiting till the smoke clears. :rofl:

 

[misterrogers]

waiting till the smoke clears.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bcYppAs6ZdI

 

[spyder71]

Just some thoughts here...

I bet the Marijuana plant has done more to stabilize and grow emerging economies than Tobacco ever did. Think about how many countries have this plant as a cash crop in one form or another. Now how many have the tobacco plant done the same for?

The image of the doped out pot head is fast fading and most realize that the stereotype only represents a few of many. My first boss smoked a pipe. He was the biggest butt head I have ever met and I'm 40. All pipe smokers must therefore be butt heads. If this worked in life I would switch to the Hugh Heffner arguments right quick!

If all the pot heads were as you described they never would have been able to band together, organize, and communicate well enough to get the laws changed. The lawmakers have a hard time taking "Spicoli" seriously when he lobbies for his rights to "smoke the kind bud, man!"

 

[nathaniel]

I think Juni may just be right. It seems to be a much larger demographic covered overall.

But seriously, MJ smokers have been getting really organized in their legalities. Yet honestly I haven't seen much of any organization going on on our part other than getting together to complain. So what can be done?

 

[nathaniel]

Posted before I did, spyder71, but that is exactly that point I'm trying to make. I wholeheartedly agree! :clap:
So what gives!?

 

[juvat270]

I agree with Nathaniel and Misterrogers. Now let me add my rambling two-cents.
First let me say that if one wishes to smoke weed, then by all means do it. I couldn't care less and even support the legalization of it. Having said that, I think this whole "medical marijuana" thing is a joke. Yes, it can help relieve the nausea of chemotherapy (so can about a dozen other things). As for glaucoma, for every "study" I've read that says weed can help cure glaucoma, I've read an equal number of studies that show it has very little if any effect.
My point is that the only reason people supported the whole legalization of medical marijuana is because they couldn't get it legalized if they just stood up and said what the real intent is. That is, the recreational use of weed. When medical weed was legalized here in Colorado, "dispensaries" popped up on just about every single strip mall. I'm not kidding, you couldn't drive two-blocks without passing one. I remember thinking too that these guys were just shooting themselves in the foot. Sure enough it didnt take long for the police to start cracking down on some of these so called doctors. One in particular was arrested because they noticed that just about every single person they busted had a medical marijuana prescription written by the same guy. Weed prescriptions for everything from headaches to depression to shin splints. Everything except cancer and glaucoma sufferers ironically.
A recent episode of the "O'Reilly Factor" illustrated this point beautifully. He was showing footage of a pot convention recently held in Oakland, California that approx. twelve thousand people attended. While the camera was shooting the crowd and interviewing people, everyone was whipping out their medical marijuana cards and cheering. Bill jokingly stated that those were the healthiest looking sick people hes ever seen. :P
To answer your question Nathaniel, they duped politicians and the general public in to the medical angle. Tobacco on the other hand is just smelly and kills people in the minds of most. The quote from MisterRogers post from that guy at his school is a perfect example of this mentality. Back in the 90s when most of my friends were smoking pot they used those same old arguments about weed vs. tobacco too.

 

[misterrogers]

Call me old fashion, but I have one last thing to add.
There is so much in this world to experience. I can look at a painting, or take a walk in the woods. I can smoke my pipe; look at the fine architecture of a church. I can go out and taste millions of different foods, each one different in their own little way. Maybe I'll sit down and read a book, or listen to Mozart.
Whatever it is, there is so much to experience in this life. So much so, I doubt I'll see, hear, taste or feel it all. So why then do I need to do a mind altering drug when there is so much to do with a clear head? When I have seen all there is to see, listened to all that can be listened to, tasted all that can be tasted, only then will I turn to mind altering drugs. But till that day, I want a clear head so that I may think and experience the world like it was meant to be.

 

[nathaniel]

well said, juvat270. But why haven't the tobacco users stepped up and done the same? If generations worth of marijuana stereotypes can "go up in smoke", then why can't just the past 40 yrs. or so of bad rep towards tobacco be retaliated against by similar angles? I think it could be done if there was some better organization.
Course then again, that would just cost us money that we'd rather spend on buying more pipes and leaf! :laughat:

 

[sherlock]

I am not sure that I agree that people were duped into passing medical marijuana laws, I think they knew exactly what was happening. Like all things prohibited people want, the prohibition eventually loses. The big difference is a matter of time line. Marijuana was make illegal in the 50's and while tobacco has never been illegal, at least in the U.S. but public opinion has been turning against it since the late 70's early 80's. There is a big time difference here, and I think that eventually this whole anti-tobacco thing will got the way of other prohibition movements. Furthermore, there is a big difference between being illegal, which pot still is on the feral level, and having to pay taxes for it. Do you think for one second that the Government isn't going to tax the hell out of pot when it is legalized? Then pot smokers will have the same problem we have.

And while agree that pot has given a boost to economies around the world it has also caused a lot of violence and crime, mostly because it is illegal in most countries. We also cannot forget that the major cash crop in the American Colonies up until the just before the Civil war was tobacco. In the 17th and 18th centuries people were having the same debate about tobacco that were are having about pot today. My point of this ramble is that the difference between pot and tobacco laws is a difference in time. I don't know why got involved its too early for this I'm gonna get some coffee and smoke. :crazy: ::

 

[strave19]

Ha, I didn't want to touch this topic either but I cant help myself...

IMO. Weed should have never been made illegal. It was done so for bogus reasons, has caused a LOT of problems/wasted tax dollars, etc... prohibition has caused more problems than it ever HOPED to solve (sound familiar?) Its hard for me to condemn weed and defend tobacco in the same breath. I think that the public and the media have both been realizing that it is not the devil drug that it was made to be during its prohibition. Many very intelligent, successful people have smoked, or do smoke weed. The medical angle, while certainly abused by many, is legitimate, has helped get it into the spotlight, and has helped thousands of people who are suffering. The medical angle was a good way to remove a lot of the negativity associated with the drug. When you have grandma suffering from cancer on the corner with the "youngsters and hippies" protesting its prohibition... people might look/think twice.

 

[nathaniel]

I want to reiterate my point here... I wasn't trying to start a discussion of pot vs baccy. I think we all agree that we are here on this site for tobacco. And regardless of an individual's position on marijuana, the discussion I'm aiming for is a WHAT WHY and HOW are these supporters of MJ getting things done, when it seems like they're fighting a battle that is much more culturally disapproved of than ours?
The truth is clear: pot is coming in and tobacco is going out. But how is it happening? And what can we do to make sure tobacco stays in? Because again, the majority of what I see happening is complaining on our part, but outside the window, marijuana supporters are actually rallying together and getting what they want! WHY AREN'T WE?
Again, this is NOT intended to be a discussion of whether or not you support marijuana legalization. It's why can't we get a foothold when they HAVE?

 

[admin]

I say everybody smoke what ever you want. You leave me alone and I will leave you alone, but I do find it ironic, illogical and asinine that the trends point to pot being politically correct and tobacco completely vilified.
We talked about that in Carter's article here:

http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/tobacco-policies-legislation/the-second-battle-in-seattle/
Let's be careful with this thread and think before you post please. No personal attacks and watch the political discussion.

 

[nathaniel]

I think sherlock makes a valid point as well... and I hope he's right and things will just blow by! ::

 

[nathaniel]

Agreed Kevin, and thanks!

 

[lordofthepiperings]

The only reason tobacco is villified in all forms is because of cigarettes. If cigarettes never were invented by those soldiers over 200 years ago pipe and cigar smokers wouldn't be in the dilemma we're in today. Society needs to learn though that in having this view point they're intending to throw the baby out with the bath water. If they basically make pipes illegal they will reduce our life expectancy by putting us at greater risk for stress related heart attacks. Could that be grounds for a law suit? Anyways pot is making head way in America at least, because there are so many in this country with anxiety disorders and eating disorders and marijuana is a good cure for those. It calms you down and makes you very very hungry. Also it's a better answer to sore joints and bones than percaset and vicadine and loritab etc. I can understand why marijuana is becoming legalized, but what I can't understand is why the government doesn't differentiate the types of tobaccos. I mean they differentiate drugs for "medical" and "recreational" purposes (legal and illegal). Why not differentiate tobaccos?

 

[nathaniel]

but what I can't understand is why the government doesn't differentiate the types of tobaccos. I mean they differentiate drugs for "medical" and "recreational" purposes (legal and illegal). Why not differentiate tobaccos?

It's so true, it almost hurts.

 

[hobie1dog]

I'd first like to say... 8O ok Marty, step back away from the keyboard...good boy. :rofl: