What's America's Most Popular US Made Straight Va Flake?

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cranseiron

Part of the Furniture Now
May 17, 2013
589
67
McHenry, MS
I suppose I'm in the FVF camp, too. It's been a while since I smoked McClelland's, but I thought at the time McC. tobac wasn't as full and more subdued-- not as rich I suppose and admitting this is a subjective opinion. Jay, I'm curious as to what pressing DS and BWF might do for it? It just might ramp up the flavor if exposed to some pressure. But, why go to the trouble when FVF is a readily available-- well, usually.

 

mawnansmiff

Lifer
Oct 14, 2015
7,423
7,367
Sunny Cornwall, UK.
Oldmojo, yes the ketchup stink aroma is indeed present on Blackwoods but it is not as powerful as in some of their other offerings. Plus, if the tin is opened and allowed to 'breathe' a little this reduces it hugely.
Hawky, yes I have tried most if not all of the Kendal made Va flakes with varying degrees of success. As for St. James Flake (a VaPer) I adore the stuff, also in plug form. In fact I enjoy the flake version more when I mix it 50/50 with FVF!
I currently have two McClelland VaPers, Tudor Castle and #2015 Virginia Perique Flake and enjoy them both exceedingly.
Eric, your description of McClelland flakes is very accurate, they are indeed quite subdued and don't seem to have much 'depth'. That said, I shall continue my journey by airing my tins a little more and drying out my flakes even further just prior to smoking. After all, they have so many positive reviews so it must be down to me :roll:
Regards,
Jay.

 
Oct 7, 2016
2,451
5,196
Interesting discussion re McClellands. I started smoking their products around 1980. I went to dozens of pipe shows over the next 15 years or so where the merits of various tobacco were passionately discussed, read every word of The Pipe Smokers Ephemeris, and had more lengthy discussions of tobacco in phone conversations than I could ever count.
I do not recall any discussion where anyone complained about McClellands having a ketchup or vinegar aroma up until the advent of the internet and alt smokers pipes in the 1990's, or that McClellands used PG on their tinned or bulk 2000 series products. One prominent ASP poster who loved Gawith products beat the anti-McClelland drum incessantly. I have said here before that having had the experience of opening tins of Rattray's that were indisputably made by Rattray in Perth (not that hard to find in the early 80's) I find the McClelland tin aroma identical. So, to me, I smell what I think Virginia tobacco made from leaf or strip diverted early from the cigarette monopolies ought to smell like. Heavily sauced "Virginia's" from God knows what third world countries, where as far as I can find out the tobacco is initially processed into strip suitable for cigarettes, will never develop that smell. The accusations about PG similarly strike me as off base. McClellands tinned products are packed at a high moisture content as that is how Mike McNeil wants to pack his product. In a shop environment, I know one tobacconist who stopped carrying McClelland bulk flakes because they dried out faster than competing products from Lane, Consolidated, etc.that indisputably had PG I have never had any of the McClelland products discussed here that have the waxy feel of PG.
I suppose this discussion has been had here many times before, and I have not really added anything new. Manufacturers, including McClellands, have all had to learn how to deal with the raw (or more likely, processed to some extent by others who might or might not do anything differently than what they do for cigarettes) ingredients available to them. Their strategies will differ, and they will succeed to varying degrees. There are a few Gawith products I like, several Germain/Esoterica blends that I enjoy, and some of the products introduced by MacBarens in recent years are very good. There is nothing wrong with having a personal preference for any of these over McClellands, or vice versa. But the raw ingredients and their initial processing can be, and as far as my own research takes me, is, very different.

 
I imagine a TV preacher in a sparkly sharkskin suit with huge lapels and a Grand Ol Opry haircut pointing into the camera and shouting, "The One True Virginia, or you're goin' to Hell!!!"

Luckily, we don't have to chose a best. No Miss Virginia contest here. No firey brimstone, just selections, diversity, and differences. Smoke whichever you want, or all of them. No demons will drag us to Hell if we chose the wrong ones, and we may treat the selections as if it were a buffet. A little of this, a little of that.

 

pitchfork

Lifer
May 25, 2012
4,030
606
So much of this comes down to personal tastes and how our tongues and noses respond to different tobaccos. Like Jay, I generally prefer the Lakeland flakes to most McClelland flakes, but at the same time I'd argue that McClelland VAs are higher quality products, both in terms of raw leaf and processing. With a McClelland Va, you can really taste all the subtleties of the natural leaf, but I personally prefer the earthiness and strength of the Empire tobaccos used in the Lakeland/Kendal flakes. To use a food analogy, a perfectly cooked, high-quality pork chop can be delicious, but often I'd rather have an ordinary bacon cheeseburger made with processed American cheese.
At the same time, my favorite VA of all is GLP Union Square. It has all the subtleties of the McClelland VAs (sweetness, spice, bready flavors), but with a cleaner, less sugary/vinegary aftertaste. Plus, it has decent strength. Ultimately, though, it really comes down to how our palates respond to particular stimuli. I really enjoy strong, natural burleys, but some people find them harsh and/or tasteless. Something like that applies to different styles of VAs, it would seem.

 

aquadoc

Lifer
Feb 15, 2017
2,044
1,522
New Hampshire, USA
Do folks really taste vinegar in McClelland tobacco? I don't but I have tried. I love the smell. But I also like Grousemoor and the only other SG tobaccos I have tried, FVF, 1792. And I hope to buy some FVF to put away for 3 to 5 years one day. Maybe it will become my nirvana smoke. And fiery brimstone is oft needed for both SGs and McClellands without prior drying.

 

pitchfork

Lifer
May 25, 2012
4,030
606
Do folks really taste vinegar in McClelland tobacco?
Technically, no. As far as I know, it's just the acidic taste of aged, fermented VAs that have been treated well. But I do taste that vinegar-like flavor in McClelland VAs, even in the smoke itself. I don't mind it -- it adds a nice tanginess. Just for whatever reason I don't enjoy McClelland VAs as much as I do some others.
I'd make an exception for some of the Christmas Cheer vintages, though. I have to be in the mood for it, but nothing I've ever smoked has the spiciness and depth of flavor I get from 2003 Christmas Cheer.

 

fitzy

Lifer
Nov 13, 2012
2,937
27
NY
McClelland's are pretty good but they put too much preservative (PG) on them
Actually I find it quite the opposite. FVF for me is a pain in the rear to prepare as for me as it's very damp. In the years I've been on this forum I think I've seen more posts on how to prep FVF than any other blend.

 

mawnansmiff

Lifer
Oct 14, 2015
7,423
7,367
Sunny Cornwall, UK.
"Do folks really taste vinegar in McClelland tobacco?"
For the large part the answer is no though I personally can just make it out on the first few puffs of some of their blends but it quickly dissipates.
It is most noticeable to me in a freshly opened tin and that initially put me off when I first experienced it last year. Thankfully I have been educated on this forum about airing the tobacco first, that deals with most of it. Indeed, after a good airing I get to smell the gorgeous aromas that I would expect from a quality, aged Virginia.
Their Tudor Castle has a phenomenal aroma once the ketchup has been driven off.
Regards,
Jay.

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,739
27,336
Carmel Valley, CA
Jay, I find it almost impossible to dry out McClellands flakes too much. To me, the flavor is much better. I can actually smoke them more or less fresh if I pack them loosely, which dramatically cuts down on relights for me, but they taste much better dry. I would say loading a bowl and waiting three days is a decent start. LOL. (Seriously, that depends on the ambient humidity).
Yes, indeed. I am a neophyte when it comes to VA's. So, after reading this thread, I opened a tin of Christmas Cheer 2016. Two 15 second sessions in microwave of a bowl's worth, rubbed out, and loaded in a large bowl gave me a pleasant smoke, one which I am continuing this morning. Do not the Xmas blends count as very fine American VA tobaccos?

 

woodsroad

Lifer
Oct 10, 2013
11,794
16,147
SE PA USA
Oct 7, 2016
2,451
5,196
@jpmcwjr, Indeed, Xmas Cheers are fine Virginia's, usually higher natural sugar leaf or strip that would have required down blending before being used in cigarettes that has been sold to McClelland instead.
I am not an advocate of using the microwave, but neither an I opposed to it. Most of the threads that I have read advocating it say 10 seconds is enough/ideal. It is not anything I have tried since I have a decades long practice that works for me, as described above.
BTW, I have fond that SG and G&H Flakes, twists, etc., Are about as challenging as McClellands. Germain/Esoterica ribbon cuts are the one family that I can thank of off the top of my had that I prefer not dried out as much as I do the others, though still a lot drier than it comes from the tin or bag.
I cellar all my tobacco as it comes, drying them out as I intend to smoke them. Just about everything I have is from McClellands, Esoterica, Germain, G & H or SG. If the EPA opened my closet, they would declare it a protected wetland.

 

jpmcwjr

Moderator
Staff member
May 12, 2015
24,739
27,336
Carmel Valley, CA
I am not an advocate of using the microwave, but neither an I opposed to it. Most of the threads that I have read advocating it say 10 seconds is enough/ideal. It is not anything I have tried since I have a decades long practice that works for me, as described above.
BTW, I have fond that SG and G&H Flakes, twists, etc., Are about as challenging as McClellands. Germain/Esoterica ribbon cuts are the one family that I can thank of off the top of my had that I prefer not dried out as much as I do the others, though still a lot drier than it comes from the tin or bag.
Ten seconds is ideal.... For certain cuts at certain moisture. Margate, for example dries out (and re-hydrates) very fast, as it's a fine cut shag or ribbon.. The thicker the cut, more time. Wetter, more time. I generally don't use microwave, but I didn't have a day to spare. RH where I am right now is ca. 45%, ideal for tray drying.
Heh on Estericas- They seem to come in around 90% RH, way to moist for a good smoke.

 

kanse

Part of the Furniture Now
Jul 9, 2016
548
5
Bagpiper's Dream

I remember my cigarette rolling papers had Arabic Gum too.
Also this topic reminds me that Glynn Quelch mentioned in one of his youtube videos that tobacco he pressed together usually fell apart easily.

 
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