What tobaccos to cellar and other obscure tips?

[cosmicfolklore]

That sounds like a viable thing you said there.
I like headspace. But, only because I don't want too much in the jar. I can usually only get 3.5oz in one of those pint jars. And, that is if I really stuff it.

 

[sablebrush52]

OK, I'll take issue with this, without a shred of empirical evidence to back up my opinions:
By the time pipe tobacco has reached our sweaty little hands, it has been exposed to the air for a very long time. Perhaps years. So, it has had sufficient time to undergo whatever changes will happen in an oxygen-rich environment. Leaving headspace in the jar isn't going to do anything to promote further aging. What is needed is less air, so that the anaerobic process can begin.
Discuss.

http://www.glpease.com/FAQ.html#AGE
http://www.glpease.com/Articles/vacuum.html
BTW, I didn't say it would stop aging, just retard it.

 

[jeff540]

FWIW, I've had much success using the short wide jars to store tobacco from the 2oz flake tins.

 

[woodsroad]

OK, for one thing, he was using the FoodSaver bags for a lot of his tobacco. Not good. They are moisture and oxygen permeable. Second,as for the jars being packed tight vs loose with headspace, this is one anecdote, one person, in an uncontrolled experiment. I'm not doubting his impressions, but they are his impressions after all.
If what he says however is actually true, then that pokes a hole in the aerobic/anaerobic theory of aging. Interesting.
My own experiments in this area lead me to other conclusions.
GLP: "Tobacco needs some air to be locked in with it , at least to begin with, in order for it to age."

That's my point: "at least to begin with". To my mind, that has already happened.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

To my mind, that has already happened.

My interpretation of what Greg is saying that you need the O2 to get started, but then as the O2 dissipates, there is another phase that takes effect. I am not 100% sure what he is talking about, and he is merely talking from theory, not anything provable... or at least he offers no evidence.
I love quoting Greg when it will serve me in a discussion, but after talking with tobacconists, tobacco growers, and manufacturers, about curing tobaccos... I am convinced that no one knows "exactly" what is happening with tobacco at any phase of curing.
I do know that Greg pops his ancient tobaccos from the tin, and then takes great pictures of them. I have never seen a picture if him smoking from a jar. ::

 

[woodsroad]

Michael, there certainly are people out there with an intimate knowledge of the science of tobacco and tobacco production. Take a look at the work of the USDA, and in particular, the work of the late T.C. Tso, author of "Physiology and Biochemistry of Tobacco Plants".

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I don't doubt that "someone" knows, but at the rubber meets the road level...

 

[woodsroad]

Read Tso.

 

[ashdigger]

Don't say I didn't tell you Tso.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Have you read it, Woods? It's an out of print book, that is available to collectors, ranging in the 100$ range. I looked at the table of contents and it doesn't look like easy reading. I already have 12 books on tobacco that might as well be written in ancient Greek for all of my ability to interpret them.
The site suggests it for people who work in agronomy of tobacco production... which is the complicated way of saying the guy who fertilizes tobacco plants... making me think the books uses biochemical jargon that I have never studied.

 

[sablebrush52]

One of the things I've wondered about is how Companies like Mac Baren and the late lamented McClelland, could still produce pungent Syrian Latakia blends more than a decade after the last harvest, given that Latakia has a relatively short shelf life. It's not like the last production runs of Vintage Syrian were made from a fresh crop. Something is keeping these stocks from fading.

 

[woodsroad]

Michael, I do have a copy, that I picked up cheap somewhere. I'll scan the pertinent chapter(s) for you.

 

[jpmcwjr]

GLP: "Tobacco needs some air to be locked in with it , at least to begin with, in order for it to age."

That's my point: "at least to begin with". To my mind, that has already happened.

I compact jars pretty hard when going for medium-long term storage. MY theory is there is plenty of oxygen in the interstices! (Daily vocabulary word from 1960, meaning spaces in between- in this case, between the bits of tobacco).

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Michael, I do have a copy, that I picked up cheap somewhere. I'll scan the pertinent chapter(s) for you.

That would be awesome!!
What I don't understand about Syrian Latakia, is that surely there was more than one farm making this? And, like American tobacco production, they would share information between farms to keep crops consistent... what the hell happen to wipe out all knowledge of this plant and its production? No other farming practice is based on keeping secrets. It doesn't work that way. Even Mark Ryan of LaPoche spends a great deal of time spreading word on how he produces perique.

 

[woodsroad]

I think that they had a civil war or something. Followed by ISIS invading. Followed by Iran invading. Followed by the US invading. Followed by Russia invading. Followed by Turkey invading. A half-million people dead.

 

[pipehunter]

FWIW, I don't leave any headspace on purpose (with flakes and such, some is inevitable). In fact, I pack the jars quite tight. The results have been satisfactory.
Admittedly, unlike Greg, I'm not popping tins from the 70s left and right. But I have a few pounds each of blends from the early 90s that have come along well, at least in my opinion. Might they have aged faster (or differently) with more air in the jar? Possibly. Would that difference have been positive? No idea.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Phhhht, that's nothing... I've driven through Atlanta at noon. ::

 

[pipehunter]

I think that they had a civil war or something. Followed by ISIS invading. Followed by Iran invading. Followed by the US invading. Followed by Russia invading. Followed by Turkey invading. A half-million people dead.

A terrible tragedy. Certainly, I don't want to gloss over it. But I think end of Syrian Latakia production predated the civil war, no? 2004 or 2005, if I remember correctly....

 

[woodsroad]

I believe that the government banned it's production doe to the deforestation that was taking place to feed the fires. I have to no cite for this.
EDIT: In doing some cursory research to answer this question, I found a book "A History of the ‘Alawis: From Medieval Aleppo to the Turkish Republic", that states Abu Riha tobacco (smoke cured) dates to 1744. Here is a link to a pdf. Go to page 139

 

[brian64]

I heard it was because the camels are all genetically modified now and they can no longer duplicate the original flavor.