Vacuum Sealing

[daimyo]

While I am sure there are both aerobic and anaerobic processes at work, I'm not sure I buy the assertion that one must happen to create the other. All tobacco is undergoing or has undergone aerobic fermentation during curing, shipping and blending regardless. If there are microorganisms that thrive in an anaerobic environment, they do so without any direct knowledge of how the anaerobic conditions were created. Interesting discussion though and I'm sure that this is something that has been explored by manufacturers. It would be great to hear them chime in. Regardless, I like jars.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Check out GL Pease's blogs. I have scoured the interwebs for information for my own use, and he seems to have done the most extensive "research?" ...for lack of a better word. There is some conflicting information out there, but like Woods has stated, no one has done any real science on this. Maybe the cigarette industry, but who trusts what they have to say, and it probably wouldn't apply to what we do anyways.
It will take someone risking their own hard earned money and their own tobacco to know anything. And, even then, what happens one time in a non-controlled environment might not happen again for someone else.
I've got six books on curing tobacco, and in all six books, they give different methods of doing the same thing. It just may be that this stuff is resilient enough that it will survive any process. But, I think that they key is getting reliable results from the aging process. Instead of leaving up to a crap shoot of possibilities.
So, we should encourage people to risk their own stashes. Go ahead, try it, please. ...for science ::

 

[jitterbugdude]

You guys seem to be forgetting that the other form of aging that tobacco undergoes is via an enzymatic process. Virginias which are known to age the best are heated to 165 degrees as part of the flue curing method (to dry the stems). At this temp all bacteria would most likely be destroyed as well as most but not all of the enzymes. Burley, which does not get heated during the curing process would be expected to have the most bacteria on it's leaf yet Burley is known to not age well.
Add to the fact that almost all tobacco is treated with varying amounts of PG (an antimicrobial) you get another ding against fermentation being responsible for aging.

 

[iamn8]

Having read through all this thread, the sum conclusion is.... jack. If there is any oxygen at all inside my vacuum sealed back, it is a VERY VERY small amount. You're unlikely to remove all oxygen sealing at home so I'll be vacuum sealing in that type of bag. At the very least I can't imagine it could hurt. We'll meet back here in five years or so.

 

[easterntraveler]

I use a vacuum sealer for my mason jars. The food saver has a Mason jar sealer. 1 large mouth and 1 small mouth. I prefer the large mouth because the small mouth does not work the the greatest. Does it work for aging? ABSOLUTELY. I have been using this method for almost 3 years now and every jar I open has that wonderful ketchup/soy sauce aroma that comes with a wonderfully aged tin of tobacco. The products even tells you for best results only use dry goods because it will still leave a small amount of air in the jar. I highly recommend this process to anyone who wants to jar, cellar, age, and to prevent drying out.

The middle shelf of my cellar is 4 jars deep and the bottom is 8 jars deep. 80 percent of my Cellar are vacuumed sealed jars. I have also read on this forum, people hearing a popping noise come from there cellar. When they investigate their jars have sealed themselves. They have actually vacuumed sealed themselves.

 

[iamn8]

Thank you eastern for confirming what I believed! Thanks for that! Awesome cellar you've got there!!! I look forward to something similar!! Of course by then you'll have a few more just like the one you already have. Vacuum sealing it is!!

 

[mustanggt]

This discussion will not change my behavior one iota. I will continue to enjoy my tobacco in any and all means of transport and storage.

Sounded pithy in my head. Sorry fellas I forgot one of these thingys. :mrgreen:

 

[iamn8]

Newbie is correct. Just a few minutes searching the net the overwhelming consensus is oxygen is required. Of course he did so it his overly aggressive "special tone" but he's correct. From PipesandCigars...
If you are aging bulk tobacco, or are looking to age tobacco from vacuum-sealed tins, the preferred method is to use mason jars (like the ones used for jarring preserves and pickles), but the method is different than you would use for food products. Fill the jars about ¾ of the way, leaving enough air space to allow for maturation. Whereas you would usually put these jars in a bath of boiling water for food preservation, that extreme heat would change the tobacco, so draw hot tap water (temperature below 140° F) into your sink, and place the jars in the sink so that the water is about as high as the level of tobacco in the jar. Let them sit in the water for about 15 minutes, and screw the lids in place. Remove them from the sink, and as they cool, a light vacuum will pull the lids tightly into place. Some folks like to use a vacuum sealer and bags to age tobacco, but this has the same problem as vacuum-sealed tins. Using ziplock bags or Tupperware type containers just won’t work as there will be too much air exchange, and the tobacco will dry out.

 

[jitterbugdude]

So we've now resorted to quoting unsubstantiated stories of the internet and passing them along as the truth!

The truth is, no one knows how best to store tobacco for aging. As I've mentioned before the "fermentation theory" is very weak from a scientific standpoint, hell, even from a non scientific standpoint it is weak.
Just store your tobacco however best suits your needs/desires.

 

[woodsroad]

Conflating opinion, agenda, bias and heresay with fact is the new national standard for research.

 

[easterntraveler]

I know for a fact that my method works exactly the way I said. I have done exactly what some have stated; I spent my own money and have since used my method on over $1000 worth of tobacco. I am vacuum sealing my jars yet I am not removing all the air. It is just how the system works.

 

[woodsroad]

Well, yeah, that was kinda my point here. The threads have crossed paths with some disturbingly similar low-thought similarities.

 

[jmmize]

I just store my ten brands in small jars and use them when I want a smoke! I hope this is correct!

All other tins are left unopened until a jar is available! Hope this works? Any ideas or comments?

 

[woodsroad]

jmmize, the procedure that you have described is precisely how black holes are formed.

How that "works" is not very relevant, once you have been drawn in......

 

[abridgedpause]

Kind of a dead topic but my vacuum sealer has a button for "sucking" the air out, and another for the sealing. So I can control how much air I want the plastic to keep by pressing the seal button at any point during the "sucking" process. I think that for those who buy bulk tobaccos and want to either age or keep the tobacco from drying out, this method works very well.

 

[darwin]

Two problems with your scenario abridgedpause. Firstly the typical freezer bags meant for use with kitchen bag sealers are not gas impermeable. Cellaring that way for years invites dried out tobacco. Secondly heavy duty mylar bags are far more gas impermeable than kitchen bags but kitchen sealers may not get hot enough to form a solid seal on them.