Tobacco Preparation - Long

[LBT]

Hey, all. Ran across a review on GLP Fillmore @ TobaccoReviews.com that included a 'preamble' rant in the review. The rant was rather profound, to me, squares with experience, and appears to be shared with many of the more experienced smokers on the board. I'll included it with a nod to "Tripjoker," the author, circa 2009:

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One of the things that I think alot of smokers do not realize is that tobacco shares alot in common with wine. The better it is, the more fussy it can be. By that I mean you can always rip open a pouch of drugstore blend and you get what you get, good or bad. The point is, it probably is as good as it's gonna get at the moment of opening.​

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The opposite is true with the fine blends offered by many, such as Pease and the like. I have found through careful experimentation, that fine tobacco likes to breathe just as fine wine likes to do. It becomes "dumb" in the tin. It needs oxygen to "open" correctly so that all of the nuance can be enjoyed and percieved.​

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It also generally comes too wet. This is a precaution for tin preservation. A fine tobacco should have a chance to rest once opened. By all means give it a try, but don't put alot of stock in that initial bowl 5 minutes after opening the tin. That kind of haste works with peanut butter, but not fine tobacco.​

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My general experience is that I pop the tin and leave it uncovered for an hour or so. Then I replace the lid and let it sit for about a week or two, opening the tin briefly for a few minutes every few days. After about two to three weeks, the tobacco is almost without fail, stunning! I rarely experience excess moisture and am assured of smoking nearly every bowl to the bottom dryly.​

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Well, that's all the preaching that I have in me today. I hope I have helped some and not offended anyone. On with the review.​

He then goes on to deliver a helpful review of the blend.

I consider this point quite different from the preparation videos above (which really are great/helpful!), and distinct from cellaring. No, this is that critical last step after proper cellaring/prep, but before the torch lands on the tobacco. I find the wine analogy to be excellent. I searched the forum, I didn't come over a thread exploring this in depth.

Thoughts?

Merci,

Lee

 

[rajangan]

He's reframing "you have to dry down the overly humectified goop in the can before you can smoke it properly" in a way that makes you feel sophisticated.

 

[lawdawg]

I haven't found that tobacco needs to breathe or anything like that, but I have found that most of the blends I like need to be at a pretty specific moisture level to deliver the best they have to offer. I am not on board with this "dry your Virginia blends until they are crispy" train that I see here often. I think that most tobaccos smoke best a bit short (on the wet side) of crispy.

I will say that some blends aren't as fussy as others in my experience, and I don't just mean easy burning OTC burleys and the like. For example, I've found that if I get GLP Quiet Nights at just the right moisture level I can get a really incense-like note out of it which just brings it to a whole new level, whereas pretty much every bowl of GLP Westminster is equally good (so long as I'm in the right ballpark for moisture levels and bowl packing).

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I have found that only a few tobaccos are natural enough anymore to actually age like we've been told it should. GLP is definitely in that category. I can go on and on and on about how tobaccos are like wines. Hell, Sutliff and Lane are the Boones Farm of wines. MacBaren, Stokkebyes, hell, the whole STG line up... is like all of the $8-12 stuff in the Grocery store. It's not really worth aging, but it sure will get the job done, and it will make you think that your smoking real tobacco. SG and GH&co are like that weird section in the wine store, plum wines, rose wines, it may or may not be a natural product, but it will bring back notions of dead grandmas, and it will give you a bitch of a head ache the next day.

D&R, GLP, many of the C&D selections are unadulterated enough to be called "real" wines, where age will have an effect, etc... But, separating the swill from the wines amongst C&D and D&R is daunting, and you'd have to know what you're doing.

Sure sure... I over-generalized. But, I bet it made you smile... otherwise you're too sensitive like a 12 year old girl. Grow up.

But, yeh, like my wines... I do like I do GLP blends that I like... I pop them open and imbibe till the sucker is empty. I may have a nice cellar, but you won't find me drinking with my pinky finger extended like some dandy in a ascot. Sometimes, I like to spend $200 on a bottle, knock the neck on a brick and just drink that mutha down, and leave the dandies to the small details.

 

[LBT]

He's reframing "you have to dry down the overly humectified goop in the can before you can smoke it properly" in a way that makes you feel sophisticated.

Maybe...

Then again, that would be akin to saying, decanting wine is just exposing it to air so it tastes better, but the process makes everyone feel more sophisticated. Which, well, may also be a point of view....

Please, I understand your point, but he's quite thoughtful in focusing his critique to a certain tier of tobacco (differentiating between drugstore and not-drugstore). Moreover, the review focus on a GLP blend, which, taking Mr. Pease at face value, states:

GLP tobaccos are moistened with water only, and are packed at the optimal moisture level for proper storage and aging. If you find the tobacco slightly too moist for your preferred smoking style, just leave the tin open for a short while. Since no humectants are added during blending, the tobacco can be dried to your taste very easily. It's much easier to dry tobacco slightly than to add moisture!​

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So, I guess you're helping me refine my question, somewhat, that the deal is all about attaining the correct moisture prior to applying flame. Perhaps.

Lee

 

[LBT]

I can go on and on and on about how tobaccos are like wines.

Please do, with respect to the 'decanting' analogy.

And yes, you made me smile.

Several times

Lee

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Very few wines being sold are all natural results of grapes and yeast. Commercially, they add sugars to increase and control the alcohol, and then stop fermentation short of dry by adding phosphates and stuff that kills the yeast. This is why we get headaches when we drink too much. It also means that these wines won't age. I mean, they will get older, but not metabolized the way we've heard wines will do.

Tobaccos all seem to be going towards anti-microbials to meet FDA and European regulations. Wesaw this when C&D was playing with them a few years ago, and it seems like SG and GH&co seem to be having problems themselves. By pasteurizing them or using microbe inhibitors, the decrease the chances of mold, but stuff that used to age doesn't seem to be aging anymore. Meaning, why store a bunch of stuff that isn't really improving.

Sure sure, some blenders will try to keep an all natural product, which you take a larger chance that it will mold, but it is about the only chance that it will actually age like blends have done in the past.

Wines, the same way. If a winemaker decides to just allow the yeast to ferment until it is dry and complete, all sweetness is gone from the wine (which I prefer), and it has a better chance of actually aging as it has throughout history. But, it also risks turning to vinegar, or going skunky. It's a gamble, the higher chance of a greater return, means risking more in the short game.

People claim that Greg uses humectants. I call bullshit. If he says he doesn't he doesn't. And, I don't detect anything. I'd challenge these chaps to a taste test. Let's see how much they think they know. But, if you are just giving Greg shit, then go ahead. I'll join in, because i like to give people shit, ha ha.

Now, backsweetening in wines, casings in tobaccos... all are sorta related. Blending wines... etc...

 

[smokiespipesmoker123]

whats wrong with Ascots?

 

[cosmicfolklore]

whats wrong with Ascots?

Smokey, I posted that one line, because I knew it would offend you personally! Feel free to bust my chops, ha ha.

 

[LBT]

Very few wines being sold are all natural results of grapes and yeast. Commercially, they add sugars to increase and control the alcohol, and then stop fermentation short of dry by adding phosphates and stuff that kills the yeast. This is why we get headaches when we drink too much. It also means that these wines won't age. I mean, they will get older, but not metabolized the way we've heard wines will do.

Tobaccos all seem to be going towards anti-microbials to meet FDA and European regulations. Wesaw this when C&D was playing with them a few years ago, and it seems like SG and GH&co seem to be having problems themselves. By pasteurizing them or using microbe inhibitors, the decrease the chances of mold, but stuff that used to age doesn't seem to be aging anymore. Meaning, why store a bunch of stuff that isn't really improving.

Sure sure, some blenders will try to keep an all natural product, which you take a larger chance that it will mold, but it is about the only chance that it will actually age like blends have done in the past.

Wines, the same way. If a winemaker decides to just allow the yeast to ferment until it is dry and complete, all sweetness is gone from the wine (which I prefer), and it has a better chance of actually aging as it has throughout history. But, it also risks turning to vinegar, or going skunky. It's a gamble, the higher chance of a greater return, means risking more in the short game.

People claim that Greg uses humectants. I call bullshit. If he says he doesn't he doesn't. And, I don't detect anything. I'd challenge these chaps to a taste test. Let's see how much they think they know. But, if you are just giving Greg shit, then go ahead. I'll join in, because i like to give people shit, ha ha.

Now, backsweetening in wines, casings in tobaccos... all are sorta related. Blending wines... etc...

Thanks. That all makes sense, especially with respect to how tannins have been used as a natural approach to preserve wine through the aging process. I've found that if a wine is "ready," those tannins have "dropped" out, and decanting requires just a few hours to 'wake' the wine; if a wine is "not ready," then decanting serves a different role, and can take half a day or more (!), so the wine can "emerge" through the tannins.

So... the analogy for tobacco would be?

IF this analogy is kinda right, it's very interesting. As you know, >98% of wine is consumed within a few days of purchase. Naturally, winemakers have adapted, and IMO have done quite well (it's scary how good a bottle of red can be found <$10). I'd imagine there's a similar dynamic/response in tobacco, but I'm relatively new to pipe tobacco.

Redirect me if I'm missing the point you're trying to make (I'm good at missing the point). I really do want to understand this, without too much trial/error, though, there are worse fates for us ascot wearing types

Lee

 

[Jaylotw]

I’ve never let a tin “breathe.” I have the palate of a goat, and wouldn’t notice a difference...not to say that the original point isn’t valid, it certainly is for some folks who really go deep into tasting.

I will say that many blends do taste better when they’re a bit on the dry side, but the whole concept of letting a tin breathe just seems a bit over the top to me.

with wine it makes a little more sense...you are going to drink that bottle immediately. Any of the volatile taste compounds that are effected by oxygen exposure are going to be immediately apparent and you’ll taste them in an hour or so.

It seems that letting a tin breathe in the matter of wine is kinda useless because you’ll be smoking from that tin for a while. When has it “breathed” too much? Kinda hard to articulate what I’m trying to say...

 

[Jwebb90]

I think there is something to letting a tin breathe for a bit. I do not have the scientific proof to back it up. I only have my personal experience.

Also, when it comes to cellaring I do not cellar believing that every blend is going to miraculously transform overtime. I cellar tobacco now because it is readily available, reasonably affordable and I have the disposable income to do so. Any of these aspects could change in the future and I would like to be prepared for that.

 

[warren]

LBT: You are allowed to smoke your blends in any manner which provides a pleasant experience. Pipe smokers are also allowed to make the experience as complicated as possible or as simple. I have three types of wine I enjoy and a handful of tobacco blends. I open a tin/pouch/bag and smoke. I work to keep life simple, uncomplicated. Others enjoy a more "sophisticated" style. Just enjoy the experience in a manner that is satisfying to you and worry not what others, including me, opine. Whatever floats your boat!

 

[jpberg]

I think that review sounds likes a wagon load of poseur bullshit.
In fairness, I think the same of the rest of tobacco reviews. So let me offer a grain of salt.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I have found... and if you are looking for a point with me, just know that you'll probably only find it at the peak of my pointy head. But, I have found that letting a GLP blend like Haddos tastes much better after airing out. Let some of that booze he uses air off it. It adds an acrid flavor, IMO. I also like to dry them a bit, almost to crunchy. Water is used to allow the tobacco better age, and it gives those guys who believe that tobacco needs a certain amount of water have their feel good moment before they steam the taste buds off their tongues.

But, for me the water inhibits flavors, some may disagree and they're misguided prerogative, ha ha. JK

So, maybe like wines... it has to breath, but I just take a less graceful method and put the tin on a coffee mug warmer to expedite things.

Tannins... tannins are added for mouth feel, in grapes that just lack a natural tannin, like white grapes. Some may fall out, but it doesn't inhibit the yeast. And, some has to remain or else why add it. But, that's nitpickin'.

 

[warren]

I for one have never, in fifty plus years of wondering, understood why anyone would imbibe a rose or even a white wine when robust reds are available. I simply cannot fathom the reality! It lies beyond my keen.

 

[warren]

In all honesty Troost has always puzzled me also.

 

[cigrmaster]

I enjoy the flavor of aged tobacco better than the taste of fresh tobacco. Mostly I smoke 8-14 or so old tobacco and I feel very grateful that I am allowed to do so.

When I was a wine drinker I was a French snob. I would much rather drink an 8-10 year old Medoc than a 2-4 year old Cab. The Medoc is fuller, smoother, richer and more fruit flavors than that Cab. The Cab is tannic, sometimes too oaky, unbalanced and too young. In the early 80's I cut my teeth on Heitz Cellar cabs from 1974. Back then they were 20.00 a bottle. They were good, but I found many French wines superior. Age to me makes a big difference whether it be tobacco. wine or cigars.

 

[workman]

I always let my tobacco breathe for days and even weeks before smoking. I like my tobacco very dry, so that's one thing. But I also think that the tobacco benefits from some time of airing or whatever term is appropriate, waking up the flavors. I have no idea why or what is going on, but I get more flavor this way.
It may not have been discussed much here, but it has been mentioned from time to time, and I'm not the only one who does this, but for the life of me I can't remember where this was brought up or by whom.
I do it and it works for me.
But I drink cheap red wine, beer and Jameson, so what do I know.

 

[lraisch]

In my experience most tins with only a little age on them will not improve after they have been opened. I don't like my tobacco too dry, so I seal the tin or put it in a humidor for as long as I'm regularly smoking it.

The situation is different with tins that I have kept for 7 or more years, especially if they show some swelling from fermentation. In that case the first bowl or two may be OK, but by the third smoke the tobacco will start to show it's true richness. The moisture level has not changed much, so I attribute the improvement to "breathing" whatever that might be.