Tobacco Ageing Query.

[mawnansmiff]

I have read much about how folks who store tobacco in Mason/Ball/Kilner jars and the like experience the 'dimple' on the lid being pulled down after a while and claim this to be a good thing, a sign that good things are happening therein.
I have also read of folks experiencing pre tinned blends swelling right up and claiming the very same thing.
Now, in my experience, my jarred blends have started to depress their lids so though this might seem to be normal, how come that negative pressure can be as good as positive pressure?
We have two opposites both claimed to be good things, so which is it to be?
BTW I thought I had asked this question afore, however I can find no trace of it using the search function hence me asking now.
Regards,
Jay.

 

[workman]

I would think that the bulging tins' contents are fermenting. The depression of the lids on jars must be because microbes are using up the oxygen in the jars. If the same process was taking place in the jars, the lids should pop back up after some time.

 

[prairiedruid]

Sometimes temperature changes cause the lids to pop in or out.

 

[kickinbears]

Re: jars, you’re introducing oxygen when you put tobacco in to age. The tobacco has to first go through aerobic processes (oxygen required, but depletes) before the anaerobic processes (lack of oxygen required) can begin. The top of the jar going down at this point is a sign that anaerobic processes have begun.
So, jar lid sucking in = a good thing
The tins have a vacuum, so the anaerobic processes have already begun. During this process, fermentation is happening that can release gas(es) that cause the tin to bulge. This type of fermentation can be a good thing (though it doesn’t happen to every tin).
So, tin bulging = a good thing.
I haven’t experienced the jar lid popping back out though to your point. If that did happen I would assume it to be a good thing until the glass jar, which cannot bulge, breaks.

 

[carolinachurchwarden]

All this being said, has anyone jarred a bulk purchased blend and cellared a tin of the same tobacco (if available) and found that they might taste the same upon opening after 5 years? Or would they taste very different from one another? I realize they're both different processes of aging, of sorts, but how far apart could they taste?
Additionally, how long do you know to age tobaccos? When do you finally pop the tin/jar and stop the aging process? 2 years? 5 years? 20 years? I mean, do they continue to get even better with age, or is there a point at which the aging process stops, so that say a 5 year tin tastes no different than a 30 year old tin? SO many questions....

 

[kickinbears]

Aromatics generally don’t cellar well due to toppings killing off the micrbiology required for the fermentation processes
Virginias age best, and can keep getting better upwards of 30yrs. So if Virginia is a dominant ingredient in the blend, it’ll likely age well
Latakia and oriental leaf mellows out. English blends smooth out over time, as the blend marries. 10-15yrs+ peak is a range I often see cited, but not an absolute
Its personal preference if age is a good thing for a blend (and for how long). I try the tobacco fresh so I can compare / learn whether I prefer a blend fresh or aged (and for how long).
I have noticed that bulk jarred vs a tin cellared at same time are different. Exposing to air / jarring pauses the aging process, so it’s not really a fair comparison because the bulk is handicapped. A quality bulk is tasty when aged all the same imo

 

[npod]

Jay, this is a great observation. I’ve noticed it also. Some jars are innies and some jars are outies. I haven’t been able to make heads or tails. However, I have noticed The jars don’t suck in and become innies for 2-3 years after screwing on the lid.
Now that above is for “mason jars”. The GL Pease or C&D or McClelland tins, that’s different. Those tend to bulge on occasion, it’s never a concern unless the tin pops. Then it’s game on and time to smoke it.

 

[mawnansmiff]

"Re: jars, you’re introducing oxygen when you put tobacco in to age. The tobacco has to first go through aerobic processes (oxygen required, but depletes) before the anaerobic processes (lack of oxygen required) can begin. The top of the jar going down at this point is a sign that anaerobic processes have begun.
So, jar lid sucking in = a good thing
The tins have a vacuum, so the anaerobic processes have already begun. During this process, fermentation is happening that can release gas(es) that cause the tin to bulge. This type of fermentation can be a good thing (though it doesn’t happen to every tin).
So, tin bulging = a good thing."
Kickinbears, that sounds kind of reasonable but I think I need to do more research but thanks for your thoughts.
"However, I have noticed The jars don’t suck in and become innies for 2-3 years after screwing on the lid."
Npod, in my experience I've had jars become 'innies' after a mere three months which I have to say surprised me somewhat.
I shall just have to keep an eye open (and ear listening) to follow progress. Granted, this mini heatwave might have some bearing on matters as I believe Workman is hinting at.
Regards,
Jay.

 

[cortezattic]

carolinachurchwarden, your questions are addressed in this link:
http://pipe-club.com/tobacco_aging_faq/eng/

 

[sablebrush52]

Cortez, that's a great resource. Thanks for reposting it.
As I've been learning, to my occasional sorrow, aging in the tin isn't a sure thing. Depends on the maker, I suppose, and maybe tin quality was better 20 or more years ago than it is now. But a number of my C&D tinned GL Pease blends have rotted from the inside out, more of them failed than not. So I'm not going to spend another nickel on any more vintage Pease tins. I would carefully consider transferring any C&D tins to jars for long term aging. Too bad cutter tops are no longer in use. Those seem to have done better at holding up.

 

[whiteburleydude]

When you say rotted, was the seal broken when you opened them? Now you have me worried. Most of my aged GLP tins are swelling. I'm assuming that is a good indicator that the seal is still intact. Most are only around 4 years though.

 

[mikethompson]

Whiteburleydude, there are some stories (even a recent thread I think), of those tins developing pin holes towards the bottom of the tin and ruining the seal that way. The older GLP tins seem to be notorious for that.