Tax Increase Removed From Bill!

[Effortlessdepths]

Shout-out and all credit to @Worknman for finding this and posting it on the "2100% tax" thread I started awhile back, but I figured I would start thread another to catch people's eye and spread the word.

As the article states, were not out of the woods yet, but hopefully this sticks.

$96 Billion Tobacco Tax Hike Removed from Build Back Better Act Draft

The most recent version of the $1.75 trillion reconciliation bill, known as the Build Back Better Act, does not include an increase on taxes for cigars or

halfwheel.com

 

[Briar Lee]

My heirs are going to be blessed with a tobacco windfall, perhaps.

 

[pappymac]

I'm not telling my wife.

I use the prospect of rising prices to justify buying more while it's cheaper.

 

[Worknman]

Dang I was hoping to get $60/tin for my small batch collection after prices went thru the roof ?

 

[SoddenJack]

I guess I can hold off building that hidden room behind the bookcase for my pipe tobacco speakeasy. What am I going to do with all these tommy guns?

 

[Servant King]

I guess I can hold off building that hidden room behind the bookcase for my pipe tobacco speakeasy. What am I going to do with all these tommy guns?

Trade them for Borkum Riff Balkan Sobranie!

 

[scout19d3]

That sounds WAAAY to cool to forgo, for any reason! You can always hide chocolate candy (my wife always steals mine) or something else in there with your tobacco.

 

[warren]

All taxes are passed on to the consumer/customer. So, prices will keep climbing. Retailers pass property tax, inventory tax, etc. onto the pipe buyer. And since they are paying the wholesaler's taxes, those are also passed onto you when you buy a pipe or blend. Then there is are the taxes passed down by the manufactures. And, the farmer's property taxes and such. Buy a pipe, blend, pipe nail, etc and you are helping to cover the taxes all way back up the supply chain. So, fretting over a a tax expressly on on tobacco? Kind of a waste. The governments will have their share. Period!

 

[Verdant]

All taxes are passed on to the consumer/customer. So, prices will keep climbing. Retailers pass property tax, inventory tax, etc. onto the pipe buyer. And since they are paying the wholesaler's taxes, those are also passed onto you when you buy a pipe or blend. Then there is are the taxes passed down by the manufactures. And, the farmer's property taxes and such. Buy a pipe, blend, pipe nail, etc and you are helping to cover the taxes all way back up the supply chain. So, fretting over a a tax expressly on on tobacco? Kind of a waste. The governments will have their share. Period!

I think you're missing the mark here. Yes, what you're saying is correct in that taxes up the supply chain will be passed onto the supplier, but what you're missing here is that this would have been an excise tax on the end-consumer. This tax would have jacked up a GL Pease 2 oz tin $6.25 and a MB 3.5 oz $10.94. That's an astoundingly high increase. Excise taxes are to discourage citizens from participating in an activity and the tax is to be commensurate with the harm induced. The great injustice of this is that we're still subsidizing corn and turning a blind eye to the myriad foods full of corn syrup that contribute to the obesity epidemic in the US. Hard to find good data on how many pipe smokers there are but I've seen numbers like 2% of all smokers where smokers are ~20% of the population, whereas the obese make up ~43% of the population. Obesity is far more likely to kill you than chain smoking cigarettes The Health Risks of Obesity - https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB4549.html . So I have a hard time just shrugging my shoulders and going "meh prices will always increase because of property taxes."

 

[mso489]

Good. Extra good.

 

[warren]

So I have a hard time just shrugging my shoulders and going "meh prices will always increase because of property taxes."

I wrote all taxes are passed on to the end user. No matter where on the "chain" the tax is imposed it will find it's way into the retail price and, therefore, the customer pays taxes they never give a thought to. Does it really matter to you and others where the tax assessed? It only matters to me that I pay it.

Then you wish to conflate the conflate by, for some unknown reason, bringing weight into the discussion. People simply do not like being around smokers so, smokers make easy targets. The health aspects of smoking are still brought up now and then but, smoking, today, is simply disgusting to the majority, they got tired of leaving bars and restaurants smelling of stale smoke. Or, having their noses assaulted why trying to enjoy a fine meal. Let's leave weight, age, dope and all of those issues out of the equation. People simply do not like smoking and smokers which makes the tobacco industry and the end users easy targets for taxes.

And, still germaine to the issue, end users foot the tax bill, not manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers, etc. All taxes applied to fuel, tobacco, food, mukluks, saddles, g-strings and the like are all paid by the end user.

 

[anotherbob]

that's what happened last time they made the same suggestion. Honestly if we want to stop this stuff from happening, I bet the best bet would be to figure out some way to distinguish between pipe tobacco and those cheap brands people roll into cigs. Some way that isn't just you can spot the difference or how people actually use it. Our hobby isn't the focus. There isn't enough money to be made on it. The place they feel like the issue is cheap tobacco primarily used for rolling cigs. It's astonishing how popular those got after the taxes went up on cigs. And how many brands went from cigarette tobacco to being pipe tobacco.

 

[warren]

Today, in the US, there aren't enough tobacco users to matter to a politician when weighed against society's aversion to seeing people smoking, enjoying themselves. So, I simply enjoy my smoking, pay the price, retail and the social stigma. We smokers do not need to be embraced, we just need to enjoy our wee vice.

So, enjoy being part of a threatened minority with a total lack of political weight. And, remember, we made the choice knowing all the negatives. So, enjoy the tobacco and ignore the societal opression ... It's all in good clean fun!

 

[Verdant]

I wrote all taxes are passed on to the end user. No matter where on the "chain" the tax is imposed it will find it's way into the retail price and, therefore, the customer pays taxes they never give a thought to. Does it really matter to you and others where the tax assessed? It only matters to me that I pay it.

Then you wish to conflate the conflate by, for some unknown reason, bringing weight into the discussion. People simply do not like being around smokers so, smokers make easy targets. The health aspects of smoking are still brought up now and then but, smoking, today, is simply disgusting to the majority, they got tired of leaving bars and restaurants smelling of stale smoke. Or, having their noses assaulted why trying to enjoy a fine meal. Let's leave weight, age, dope and all of those issues out of the equation. People simply do not like smoking and smokers which makes the tobacco industry and the end users easy targets for taxes.

And, still germaine to the issue, end users foot the tax bill, not manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers, etc. All taxes applied to fuel, tobacco, food, mukluks, saddles, g-strings and the like are all paid by the end user.

Yes, where the tax is assessed matters from a policy standpoint because of the market entry/cooling effects it can have and because of various precedents it sets for acceptable taxation. I'd also disagree that up-chain taxes aren't purely passed on because market prices are not based on your costs --- they're based on what the market can sustain. In other words, if I'm a sandwich shop in a market that supports approximately an $8 sandwich, if my property tax shoots through the roof, I can try selling $20 sandwiches but I'm more likely just going to go out of business. Excise tax keeps operating costs off of the business and pressure the consumer directly (thereby suppressing demand, yes, which negatively affects business).

The aside regarding obesity was only a comment on the broken system that we've got that would promote obesity via corn subsidies while flogging the favorite public enemy #1, the big bad tobacco leaf.

 

[warren]

I'm happy to see we, more or less, are in agreement. The company you cited in your example has another option however, eat the tax and go broke.

There is nothing efficacous about tobacco, unless you raise or sell it. But, putting match to the leaf and then sucking the smoke into one's body? Well, that was simply a bad decision most of us are willing to own up to as we, humans, are simply a wee bit selfish, a wee bit rebellious, and certainly, many of our members refuse to acknowledge this, enjoy the nic hit. Well, at least our brain does even if the smoker doesn't feel it. So, is it any wonder we smokers have no defenses against the "antis". Smoking is simply a selfish choice. I and others here acknowledge such, "Smoking is enjoyable, damn the health risks and what others say, I'm smoking!" As I say, accept the present situation as you can't defend it, and enjoy your wee vice. "Smoke 'em if you got 'em!"

 

[Verdant]

I'm happy to see we, more or less, are in agreement. The company you cited in your example has another option however, eat the tax and go broke.

There is nothing efficacous about tobacco, unless you raise or sell it. But, putting match to the leaf and then sucking the smoke into one's body? Well, that was simply a bad decision most of us are willing to own up to as we, humans, are simply a wee bit selfish, a wee bit rebellious, and certainly, many of our members refuse to acknowledge this, enjoy the nic hit. Well, at least our brain does even if the smoker doesn't feel it. So, is it any wonder we smokers have no defenses against the "antis". Smoking is simply a selfish choice. I and others here acknowledge such, "Smoking is enjoyable, damn the health risks and what others say, I'm smoking!" As I say, accept the present situation as you can't defend it, and enjoy your wee vice. "Smoke 'em if you got 'em!"

Indeed.

And agreed. We're in risk mitigation, not risk removal. Pick your poison. This one's delicious and ponderous.

 

[Worknman]

I feel like every year there's some sort of age that's about to fall......and then it doesn't.
Deeming regs anyone?

 

[bullet08]

Someone must've been sleeping in a meeting again.

 

[Gavrin]

I'm not telling my wife.

I use the prospect of rising prices to justify buying more while it's cheaper.

priceless! Will have a laugh all nite with that one

 

[briarbuck]

It's baaaack in the bill. They talked about it with Joe Manchin last night.