Something Like Crumble Kake English #1, but Available in Bulk?

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sardonicus87

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 28, 2022
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Dothan, Alabama
Looking for recommendations of tobaccos available in bulk (in any cut other than rope or plug) that tastes similar or as close as possible to Sutliff Crumble Kake English #1.

Anyone know of any?
 
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vosBghos

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 7, 2022
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476
Idaho
No idea, but I love that stuff myself and seem to go through it pretty quickly , I’ll be keeping an eye on this thread.

I know we all have different tastes , but I also seem to go through a lot of SPC Wildman , have you tried that?

inquiring minds want to know…
 
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sardonicus87

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 28, 2022
127
1,498
35
Dothan, Alabama
No idea, but I love that stuff myself and seem to go through it pretty quickly , I’ll be keeping an eye on this thread.

I know we all have different tastes , but I also seem to go through a lot of SPC Wildman , have you tried that?

inquiring minds want to know…
No,I haven't tried that. The only SPC I tried is the Plum Pudding Special Reserve edition (plug cut). It's the first time I ever had plug cut and I am not a fan of plug cuts in general.

Regardless, I'm trying to quit cigarettes and transition to just pipe smoking, and I could smoke English #1 all day long (favorite so far). That's why I am looking for something that tastes similar, but available in bulk to use as my go-to, all day smoke, because it wouldn't be very cost-effective to smoke 3-4+ bowls a day of the English #1.

I know there's bulk English and Balkans available, and I am sure I could find something I would enjoy smoking all day at 10 minutes a pop every 30-50 minutes, but I want to find one similar (in taste and strength) to the aforementioned if it's possible. Though I do realize it won't be exactly the same, it doesn't have to taste perfectly identical, just close.

Otherwise, I have to read reviews and dig through a ton of bulk English/Balkan and buy a bunch of 1oz bags to try and start hunting. That in itself I wouldn't mind doing if I already had a go-to all day blend (for me) to use while I hunt other possibilities.
 

vosBghos

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 7, 2022
291
476
Idaho
No,I haven't tried that. The only SPC I tried is the Plum Pudding Special Reserve edition (plug cut). It's the first time I ever had plug cut and I am not a fan of plug cuts in general.

Regardless, I'm trying to quit cigarettes and transition to just pipe smoking, and I could smoke English #1 all day long (favorite so far). That's why I am looking for something that tastes similar, but available in bulk to use as my go-to, all day smoke, because it wouldn't be very cost-effective to smoke 3-4+ bowls a day of the English #1.

I know there's bulk English and Balkans available, and I am sure I could find something I would enjoy smoking all day at 10 minutes a pop every 30-50 minutes, but I want to find one similar (in taste and strength) to the aforementioned if it's possible. Though I do realize it won't be exactly the same, it doesn't have to taste perfectly identical, just close.

Otherwise, I have to read reviews and dig through a ton of bulk English/Balkan and buy a bunch of 1oz bags to try and start hunting. That in itself I wouldn't mind doing if I already had a go-to all day blend (for me) to use while I hunt other possibilities.
Noted, On some of the reviews I’ve heard English #1 referred to as “ the poor man’s Penzance” which is a pretty tall order…I saw on another forum that for a bulk blend that “ Balkan supreme” hits some of the same notes as the elusive penzance but as I can only compare it to English #1 I tend to agree as even the tin of # 1 says a Balkan style English. I have got a few oz.of Balkan supreme and though it is a ribbon cut so of course a bit drier it does the job and is much more economical. Definitely liked a lot around here , maybe begin there?
 
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logs

Lifer
Apr 28, 2019
1,829
4,942
Maybe Watch City? They have several good bulk English/Balkan blends that are basically crumble cake sliced into flake form. One of theirs might work for you:
  • Churchwarden
  • Ahab's Comfort
  • Nor'easter
 

sardonicus87

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 28, 2022
127
1,498
35
Dothan, Alabama
Maybe Watch City? They have several good bulk English/Balkan blends that are basically crumble cake sliced into flake form. One of theirs might work for you:
  • Churchwarden
  • Ahab's Comfort
  • Nor'easter
What I'm looking for is similar flavor and strength, cut is irrelevant (as long as not rope or plug), and available in bulk.

I probably should have made that more clear in the title.
 
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supdog

Starting to Get Obsessed
Nov 10, 2012
276
120
Red Odessa, Red Virginias, Turkish, Latakia, and Perique. Instead of burley it has perique. I've never smoked either one, but they have a similar base.
 
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sardonicus87

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 28, 2022
127
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35
Dothan, Alabama
Yesterday, I decided to look on Smoking Pipes at the English #1 and I scrolled to the bottom where it has "people who bought this also bought" and the only thing listed that was available in bulk was Arango Balkan Supreme. So I ordered 1 oz of that, as well as 1 oz each of Sutliff's BSOM Match and BS 759 Match.

Once they come in, I'll have a bowl of each preceded every time by English #1 for a compare/contrast, but only compare 1 per day. In other words, I will have a bowl of English #1 followed by Balkan Supreme one day, then the next day a bowl of English #1 followed by BSOM Match, then the next same thing English #1 followed by BS 759 Match. On those days, I'll avoid anything else and make sure I'm clear for tasting.

I'll report back with what I think is closest to me starting with a basic profile of what I get out of English #1, and then how each compares to that. It's going to be a little while though, the order hasn't even shipped yet.
 

Mrs. Pickles

Lurker
May 8, 2022
9
16
USA
I'll report back with what I think is closest to me starting with a basic profile of what I get out of English #1, and then how each compares to that. It's going to be a little while though, the order hasn't even shipped yet.

Looking forward to reading your takes on these and how they measure to English #1!
 
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sardonicus87

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 28, 2022
127
1,498
35
Dothan, Alabama
Well, my 1oz bags came today, so I started with the English #1 this morning and took detailed notes. So I will compare the Arango Balkan Supreme today, the Sutliff Match BSOM tomorrow and the Sutliff Match BS 759 the day after. But I wanted to give my impressions of English #1 today. I'll wait until I have tried all three of the aforementioned before posting the comparisons (day after tomorrow unless something comes up).

As a preface, everyone tastes things a little differently, so bear that in mind when you read my comparisons. To save some space, I'm going to wrap an explanation of how I am going to classify taste in spoiler tags, but I do recommend reading it to clearly understand how I am analyzing these and what I mean.

I'm going to stick to broad, overall descriptions of the flavors and not try to hyper analyze what flavors come from where.

Primary Notes:
The main flavor that persists from initial draw through aftertaste. Base note and main color. Generally stronger on the retro-nasal palate than overtones and undertones, which is part of how I determine the base flavor notes.

Overtones:
Strong flavor notes that could be as strong as or stronger than the primary tones, but which do not linger much or as much as primary notes. Will likely be lower in aftertaste, or possibly non-existent at that point.

Undertones:
Similar to overtones, but not as strong, more like flavor hints or coloring notes, but may also simply be separate notes in themselves. Least likely to persist through aftertaste.

Overall Tone:
The general, overall tone (not taste) which can range from bright to dark and light to thick. Will also determine whether smooth or harsh here, and other factors such as evenness from start to finish. Will also include strength of taste and strength of nicotine hit here, which can be none, mild, medium or strong.

Sutliff Crumble Kake English #1​

Overall Impressions: savory and mildly sweet. The interplay of savory and sweet is comparable to like a candied bacon or barbecue ribs that are dry rubbed and just barely glazed with dark brown sugar or honey (as in level of sweet and savory, not as in tastes like barbecue).

Primary Note(s): savory, musky leather that are stronger on the retro-nasal palate than the tongue.

Overtones: mildly sweet, almost a honey or dark brown sugar kind of taste. Overtones stronger than primary on the mouth palate at initial draw, balanced at mid draw, very light lingering but overshadowed by primary notes in aftertaste. Not detected on retro-nasal palate.

Undertones: mildly tangy, present at same level throughout draw but more easily detected as overtones fade, do not linger at all through aftertaste. Not detected on retro-nasal palate.

Overall Tone: medium dark, smooth, mild thickness, and consistent from start to finish. Nicotine strength is medium, flavor strength is medium. Low and brief lingering of aftertaste. Does not burn in the nose and does not fatigue the palate. Tastes not present: smokey, nutty, herbal, floral.
 
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sardonicus87

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 28, 2022
127
1,498
35
Dothan, Alabama
I know it is a day earlier than I said but, I took such careful notes of the English #1 and it's still so fresh in my mind that I decided to do the last two comparisons today (gave myself plenty of time between each to reset). On both pipes used, shank, stem and draught hole were cleaned with alcohol (Everclear 190) the night before, so every smoke was as fresh and clean as possible beyond using a completely new pipe (and neither pipe is ghosted by anything).

Here, my "Overall Impressions" (in the full breakdown) will include flavor comparison to English #1.

It's kind of funny, I've seen both English #1 and G. L. Pease Quiet Nights both compared to and called "a poor man's Penzance", so you would think they would be similar to each other, but to me they are both way different. So I wasn't sure how various recommendations would go.

I smoked the Arango and the Sutliff Match BS 759 in my Savinelli prince and the English #1 and Sutliff Match BSOM were in my Lorenzetti billiard. I need to revisit BSOM in the Sav, my billiard has a tendency to stack flavors in ribbon cuts more than the Sav does. However English #1 tastes the same regardless of which pipe I use.

The Short Version:​

The closest was Sultiff Match BS 759, by a relatively wide margin over the other two, and I don't think that I'll find anything closer.

Arango Balkan Supreme isn't even close with an almost pure musky leather base note that's muskier than English #1, and basically none of the sweetness or tanginess, lighter overall flavor and a weaker nicotine hit. Match score: 2/10.

Sutliff Match B.S.O.M. has almost exactly the same lightly musky slightly tangy leathery base note, and some of the same kind of sweetness as English #1 but to a lesser degree and a little more towards citrus than honey. Adds in a smokey taste that is mildly peppery which isn't in the English #1 to me. Has a slightly weaker nic hit, but surprisingly higher than expected for the lack of burley. Match Score: 5/10.

Sultiff Match BS 759 is the one I had highest hopes for as it smelled most similar to English #1 upon opening the bag. These hopes proved correct and I would almost describe this as an English #1 that's a little less smooth and with a bit of a kick. Nearly identical base note and very similar overtones, similar flavor and nicotine strength. Match score 8/10.

A longer, more detailed breakdown:

Arango Balkan Supreme​

Overall Impressions: Very light taste, far from sweet and only lightly savory. Almost a pure musky leather taste. Compared to English #1, much more leathery tasting, much lighter, no tanginess in the leathery taste, slightly herbal/floral. Less complex, less sweet. Not really comparable to English #1 at all, and not a viable bulk replacement to me.

Primary Note(s): leather, heavier on the tongue than retro-nasal during draw, but lingers equally on both in aftertaste.

Overtones: mildly herbal/nutty, more detectable on the retro-nasal palate than tongue during initial draw, but trail off very quickly, leaving just the primary leather note to linger, not very detectable on mouth palate. Weaker than the primary notes, but still a separate tone rather than coloring tone.

Undertones: almost none that I can detect, maybe a slight hint of smokiness, equally detectable in mouth and retro-nasal palates, lingers on the retro-nasal longer than the overtones, but still fades quickly, lingers longer on the mouth palate than retro-nasal. Very much just a coloring tone rather than a separate tone unto itself.

Overall Tone: medium dark, thin/light, very smooth. Consistent flavor start to finish. Mild-medium nicotine hit (slightly less than English #1 though), mild on flavor. Flavor strength fades very fast with little aftertaste beyond some extremely mild leather and smoke taste. Does not burn on the nose, shouldn't be fatiguing. Tastes not present: sweet, tang, spice, pepper.

Sutliff Match B.S.O.M.​

Overall Impressions: Much closer to the English #1 than the Arango, but still not quite there. More complex than Arango, less than English #1. Has some similar sweetness to English #1 but in lower levels and less evenly distributed (probably due to it being a ribbon cut vs cake and the fact that my billiard seems to stack rather than blend flavors like my prince). Has a subtle spiciness to the smoke flavor that English #1 doesn't have, and lacks the tangy element of English #1. I probably should have used a pipe with a wider bowl, as each draw is a gamble as to whether I am going to be hit with a citrusy sweetness, or a peppery smokiness. A much more viable candidate than the Arango, might need to try it again in a wider pipe bowl. A little bit brighter than English #1, but still in that darker tone area.

Primary Note(s): savory leather.

Overtones: a spicy/peppery smoke flavor that at times overpowers the musky leather taste and at times lingers a little too long, especially on the tongue, but will fade away leaving the leathery taste.

Undertones: a mildly sweet citrus-floral kind of taste, undertones fade rapidly and more detectable retro-nasally than on the tongue, but sometimes they stick around and some color to the musky leather.

Overall Tone: medium, moderate thickness, medium nic hit (surprising considering it lacks the burley found in English #1), and medium taste strength. Slightly uneven flavor that's a little on the rougher side of smooth. Aftertaste lingers slightly longer than English #1. Lingering aftertaste of musky leather colored by a citrusy sweetness. Does not burn the nose. Flavor not present: tangy, nutty, herbal.

Sutliff Match B.S. 759​

Overall Impressions: I think we have a winner for this round. The leather note is almost identical to English #1 in sweetness vs muskiness, with extremely similar overtones, with additional tones not present in English #1 being very subtle undertones. If I were pressed to describe it, I would almost say it's like a slightly differently colored, spicier English #1.

Primary Note(s): savory leather

Overtones: dark brown sugar or molasses kind of sweetness, primarily on the tongue and less so retro-nasally and stronger at the beginning of the draw, with a floral woody taste present equally on both palates that lingers longer in the nose while the sweetness lingers longer on the tongue.

Undertones: the most subtle peppery spiciness, only detected on the tongue and doesn't linger at all, solely a coloring tone and not a tone unto itself, and an even more subtle—almost nonexistent—tanginess.

Overall Tone: medium dark, moderately thick, consistent from start to finish with a medium nic-hit. Doesn't burn the nose and aftertaste lingers just a little. Flavor not detected: smokey or nutty.
 

vosBghos

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 7, 2022
291
476
Idaho
I know it is a day earlier than I said but, I took such careful notes of the English #1 and it's still so fresh in my mind that I decided to do the last two comparisons today (gave myself plenty of time between each to reset). On both pipes used, shank, stem and draught hole were cleaned with alcohol (Everclear 190) the night before, so every smoke was as fresh and clean as possible beyond using a completely new pipe (and neither pipe is ghosted by anything).

Here, my "Overall Impressions" (in the full breakdown) will include flavor comparison to English #1.

It's kind of funny, I've seen both English #1 and G. L. Pease Quiet Nights both compared to and called "a poor man's Penzance", so you would think they would be similar to each other, but to me they are both way different. So I wasn't sure how various recommendations would go.

I smoked the Arango and the Sutliff Match BS 759 in my Savinelli prince and the English #1 and Sutliff Match BSOM were in my Lorenzetti billiard. I need to revisit BSOM in the Sav, my billiard has a tendency to stack flavors in ribbon cuts more than the Sav does. However English #1 tastes the same regardless of which pipe I use.

The Short Version:​

The closest was Sultiff Match BS 759, by a relatively wide margin over the other two, and I don't think that I'll find anything closer.

Arango Balkan Supreme isn't even close with an almost pure musky leather base note that's muskier than English #1, and basically none of the sweetness or tanginess, lighter overall flavor and a weaker nicotine hit. Match score: 2/10.

Sutliff Match B.S.O.M. has almost exactly the same lightly musky slightly tangy leathery base note, and some of the same kind of sweetness as English #1 but to a lesser degree and a little more towards citrus than honey. Adds in a smokey taste that is mildly peppery which isn't in the English #1 to me. Has a slightly weaker nic hit, but surprisingly higher than expected for the lack of burley. Match Score: 5/10.

Sultiff Match BS 759 is the one I had highest hopes for as it smelled most similar to English #1 upon opening the bag. These hopes proved correct and I would almost describe this as an English #1 that's a little less smooth and with a bit of a kick. Nearly identical base note and very similar overtones, similar flavor and nicotine strength. Match score 8/10.

A longer, more detailed breakdown:

Arango Balkan Supreme​

Overall Impressions: Very light taste, far from sweet and only lightly savory. Almost a pure musky leather taste. Compared to English #1, much more leathery tasting, much lighter, no tanginess in the leathery taste, slightly herbal/floral. Less complex, less sweet. Not really comparable to English #1 at all, and not a viable bulk replacement to me.

Primary Note(s): leather, heavier on the tongue than retro-nasal during draw, but lingers equally on both in aftertaste.

Overtones: mildly herbal/nutty, more detectable on the retro-nasal palate than tongue during initial draw, but trail off very quickly, leaving just the primary leather note to linger, not very detectable on mouth palate. Weaker than the primary notes, but still a separate tone rather than coloring tone.

Undertones: almost none that I can detect, maybe a slight hint of smokiness, equally detectable in mouth and retro-nasal palates, lingers on the retro-nasal longer than the overtones, but still fades quickly, lingers longer on the mouth palate than retro-nasal. Very much just a coloring tone rather than a separate tone unto itself.

Overall Tone: medium dark, thin/light, very smooth. Consistent flavor start to finish. Mild-medium nicotine hit (slightly less than English #1 though), mild on flavor. Flavor strength fades very fast with little aftertaste beyond some extremely mild leather and smoke taste. Does not burn on the nose, shouldn't be fatiguing. Tastes not present: sweet, tang, spice, pepper.

Sutliff Match B.S.O.M.​

Overall Impressions: Much closer to the English #1 than the Arango, but still not quite there. More complex than Arango, less than English #1. Has some similar sweetness to English #1 but in lower levels and less evenly distributed (probably due to it being a ribbon cut vs cake and the fact that my billiard seems to stack rather than blend flavors like my prince). Has a subtle spiciness to the smoke flavor that English #1 doesn't have, and lacks the tangy element of English #1. I probably should have used a pipe with a wider bowl, as each draw is a gamble as to whether I am going to be hit with a citrusy sweetness, or a peppery smokiness. A much more viable candidate than the Arango, might need to try it again in a wider pipe bowl. A little bit brighter than English #1, but still in that darker tone area.

Primary Note(s): savory leather.

Overtones: a spicy/peppery smoke flavor that at times overpowers the musky leather taste and at times lingers a little too long, especially on the tongue, but will fade away leaving the leathery taste.

Undertones: a mildly sweet citrus-floral kind of taste, undertones fade rapidly and more detectable retro-nasally than on the tongue, but sometimes they stick around and some color to the musky leather.

Overall Tone: medium, moderate thickness, medium nic hit (surprising considering it lacks the burley found in English #1), and medium taste strength. Slightly uneven flavor that's a little on the rougher side of smooth. Aftertaste lingers slightly longer than English #1. Lingering aftertaste of musky leather colored by a citrusy sweetness. Does not burn the nose. Flavor not present: tangy, nutty, herbal.

Sutliff Match B.S. 759​

Overall Impressions: I think we have a winner for this round. The leather note is almost identical to English #1 in sweetness vs muskiness, with extremely similar overtones, with additional tones not present in English #1 being very subtle undertones. If I were pressed to describe it, I would almost say it's like a slightly differently colored, spicier English #1.

Primary Note(s): savory leather

Overtones: dark brown sugar or molasses kind of sweetness, primarily on the tongue and less so retro-nasally and stronger at the beginning of the draw, with a floral woody taste present equally on both palates that lingers longer in the nose while the sweetness lingers longer on the tongue.

Undertones: the most subtle peppery spiciness, only detected on the tongue and doesn't linger at all, solely a coloring tone and not a tone unto itself, and an even more subtle—almost nonexistent—tanginess.

Overall Tone: medium dark, moderately thick, consistent from start to finish with a medium nic-hit. Doesn't burn the nose and aftertaste lingers just a little. Flavor not detected: smokey or nutty.
Very nice breakdown as a fan of English #1 I’ll definitely give BS 759 a try. I have a long road trip coming up and I don’t want to be stranded without a medium english
 
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sardonicus87

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 28, 2022
127
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Dothan, Alabama
Very nice breakdown as a fan of English #1 I’ll definitely give BS 759 a try. I have a long road trip coming up and I don’t want to be stranded without a medium english
You might get different qualities than I did, definitely let me know what you think if you do try it, as whether you agree it's fairly similar to English #1 or not, or if you agree with my general statement that it's like a spicier and rougher version of it.

Also bear in mind that I might be slightly perception skewed in comparing the similarity since I've only compared 3 blends to it at this point, and my breakdowns of those three are based on one bowl each (no matter how carefully I smoked that bowl and came in with a clean palate). I'm interested to see if anyone else that's a fan of Crumble Kake English #1 comes to the same conclusions.

Luckily, English #1 is not rare or hard to get. Just buying sleeves of tins is way more expensive than buying a 1 lb bulk bag.

Also one quick side note, I did get it pretty dry before smoking, I don't know how wet you prefer your ribbons, I got it from SmokingPipes.com and I let it sit spread out for an hour before loading it in the bowl.
 
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sardonicus87

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 28, 2022
127
1,498
35
Dothan, Alabama
@vosBghos

Have you ever had Mac Baren: HH Balkan Blend? From what I was reading, it might also be similar, and it's available in a bulk bag. If you haven't, I plan to place an order for a 1.7 oz tin to give it a shot, I'll make a another comparison once I get it.
 
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vosBghos

Starting to Get Obsessed
May 7, 2022
291
476
Idaho
@vosBghos

Have you ever had Mac Baren: HH Balkan Blend? From what I was reading, it might also be similar, and it's available in a bulk bag. If you haven't, I plan to place an order for a 1.7 oz tin to give it a shot, I'll make a another comparison once I get it.
I was gifted some aged 3 years I’ll try it out. All the HH stuff I’ve tasted is grand ,complex, and full bodied …
 
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sardonicus87

Starting to Get Obsessed
Jun 28, 2022
127
1,498
35
Dothan, Alabama
@vosBghos

Hey, my HH Balkan came today, having it now (tinned April 2021 apparently).

Without going into as in-depth as I was before, this one beats out the BS 759 as a match for English #1 in my opinion. It's almost exactly the same, just a hair more floral and a hair less sweet, at least so far. Well that and a slightly lighter taste overall, not quite as bold.

I'm giving the Mac Baren HH Balkan an 9/10 as far as a match for English #1. My quest is over I think.
 
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