Smoking Penzance n thinking about politics & Chess

[shotokun16]

(Moderator by all means remove if the topic isnt appropriate)
So while smoking penzance outside a 69-71F weather-- i thought to myself after 45 minutes about the new bill being passed in Arizona. Bill no. XXXX giving local authority the right to go into peoples home and deport individuals who are living illegally (i.e. w/o formal documentation).
What do you guys think? harsh? should we reevaluate the bill and take it to the supreme court? Will this cost more money from tax payers? or was it right?
Chess:

So today is the beginning of round 1 and Topalov ranked #2 in the world challenging defending 2009 world Champion Vishy Anand. Any thoughts? Who will win
1st place winner: 1.2 million Euros ($1.6 Million)

Runner up: 800k Euros ($1,070,000 million)

 

[oppie]

I love the bill. I know it won't catch on here(Illinois). But I love it. Long overdo. Shame the Comrades in Washington are going to challenge it.

 

[pstlpkr]

Topalov, Topalov your my man,

If you can't do it,

Vishy can.

 

[unclearthur]

Gotta agree with Oppie on that one! Illegal is ILLEGAL!

 

[hobie1dog]

This is also a subject which brings to our attention the Illusion of Superiority. One person claims that a certaing piece of land is now theirs because of their superiority over another human being...can you say Native American Indians...so the big bully comes in and kills and annihalates an entire nation of people who were definitely there before and it was indeed their land..so who is ILLEGAL ????....but Americans are always supporting the Illusion of Superiority. Mostly in Sports, Religion, Politics..gotta be the winner with NO concern, empathy, or compassion for any fellow human being. It's always Us or I against Them or You. Always has to be a winner on top, the wealthy who hoard their billions, the corporations who get their way irregardless of what impact it has on the people or the entire globe, same thing, no concern
We spend 920 BILLION each year.....yep, think about that figure for awhile...on arms to kill each other with, to prove that we are superior, and that same amount of money would provide food, clothing and very nice shelter for every human being on the planet. Zero poverty, no children dying of starvation each day. But that would require everyone to actually sit down and converse with one another and work out differences in a humane/advanced society way. Not the barbaric/primitive society we live in that thinks...I'll just bomb you with an Atomic Bomb to make it quicker, and /or shoot you and even your family to get my way, because my way is superior to yours.
So what would you do if you narrowed this down to a personal level? What about an "Illegal" ? Suppose this person you want to go into a house and drag out was found to be your sister's child or your step-brother you didn't know about? Now you are dealing with a family member, and he had a reputation as being the most compassionate and hardest working " immigrant" in the area. Doing charity work on weekends, a model citizen (although the system says that a piece of paper makes him not worthy of living in the area).
I'm not a Sheeple, and never will be. But most Sheeple will go along with anything their superior leaders tell them. Just like we agreed to bomb Bagdad after 9/11. That country had never invaded another country and had absolutely no ties to 9/11 and was proven to have no weapons of mass destruction either, but we blindly said to ourselves, " They know who the enemy is, let's go defeat them " Later people realized oh...I guess it was Iatollah and he isn't in that country is he? So now we let thousands of young men go over and kill many helpless, innocent women, children, etc. and die themselves in the process. But when you have the power of advertising convincing people and brainwashing them, to go out and graze at the Mall and their Sporting Events so that they will be consumed with "winning" (their team) or winning the neighborhood contest to have the better clothing, cars, yards, etc., then you can pull anything over on them. And they won't shut down Washington DC, or take hostage the politicians, or anything else because they are simply Sheeple, peacefully grazing with their blinders in place, texting on their cell phones, or telling everyone on Facebook that they are going to the bathroom.
So now we need to define, " Illegal "
Remember to the original poster, you did say, " What do you think? " Thats what I think today. 8O :?

 

[igloo]

Mexico has a radical idea for a rational immigration policy that most Americans would love. However, Mexican officials haven’t been sharing that idea with us as they press for our Congress to adopt the McCain-Kennedy immigration reform bill.
That's too bad, because Mexico, which annually deports more illegal aliens than the United States does, has much to teach us about how it handles the immigration issue. Under Mexican law, it is a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico.
. Mexico has a single, streamlined law that ensures that foreign visitors and immigrants are:

• in the country legally;

• have the means to sustain themselves economically;

• not destined to be burdens on society;

• of economic and social benefit to society;

• of good character and have no criminal records; and

• contributors to the general well-being of the nation.

The law also ensures that:

• immigration authorities have a record of each foreign visitor;

• foreign visitors do not violate their visa status;

• foreign visitors are banned from interfering in the country’s internal politics;

• foreign visitors who enter under false pretenses are imprisoned or deported;

• foreign visitors violating the terms of their entry are imprisoned or deported;

• those who aid in illegal immigration will be sent to prison.

Who could disagree with such a law? It makes perfect sense. The Mexican constitution strictly defines the rights of citizens -- and the denial of many fundamental rights to non-citizens, illegal and illegal. Under the constitution, the Ley General de Población, or

General Law on Population, spells out specifically the country's immigration policy.
It is an interesting law -- and one that should cause us all to ask, Why is our great southern neighbor pushing us to water down our own immigration laws and policies, when its own immigration restrictions are the toughest on the continent? If a felony is a

crime punishable by more than one year in prison, then Mexican law makes it a felony to be an illegal alien in Mexico.
If the United States adopted such statutes, Mexico no doubt would denounce it as a manifestation of American racism and bigotry.
We looked at the immigration provisions of the Mexican constitution. [1] Now let's look at Mexico's main immigration law.
Mexico welcomes only foreigners who will be useful to Mexican society:

• Foreigners are admitted into Mexico "according to their possibilities of contributing to national progress." (Article 32)

• Immigration officials must "ensure" that "immigrants will be useful elements for the country and that they have the necessary funds for their sustenance" and for their dependents. (Article 34)

• Foreigners may be barred from the country if their presence upsets "the equilibrium of the national demographics," when foreigners are deemed detrimental to "economic or national interests," when they do not behave like good citizens in their own country, when they have broken Mexican laws, and when "they are not found to be physically or mentally healthy." (Article 37)

• The Secretary of Governance may "suspend or prohibit the admission of foreigners when he determines it to be in the national interest." (Article 38)

Mexican authorities must keep track of every single person in the country:

• Federal, local and municipal police must cooperate with federal immigration authorities upon request, i.e., to assist in the arrests of illegal immigrants. (Article 73)

• A National Population Registry keeps track of "every single individual who comprises the population of the country," and verifies each individual's identity. (Articles 85 and 86)

• A national Catalog of Foreigners tracks foreign tourists and immigrants (Article 87), and assigns each individual with a unique tracking number (Article 91).

Foreigners with fake papers, or who enter the country under false pretenses, may be imprisoned:

• Foreigners with fake immigration papers may be fined or imprisoned. (Article 116)

• Foreigners who sign government documents "with a signature that is false or different from that which he normally uses" are subject to fine and imprisonment. (Article 116)

Foreigners who fail to obey the rules will be fined, deported, and/or imprisoned as felons:

• Foreigners who fail to obey a deportation order are to be punished. (Article 117)

• Foreigners who are deported from Mexico and attempt to re-enter the country without authorization can be imprisoned for up to 10 years. (Article 118)

• Foreigners who violate the terms of their visa may be sentenced to up to six years in prison (Articles 119, 120 and 121). Foreigners who misrepresent the terms of their visa while in Mexico -- such as working with out a permit -- can also be imprisoned.

Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says,

• "A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally." (Article 123)

• Foreigners with legal immigration problems may be deported from Mexico instead of being imprisoned. (Article 125)

• Foreigners who "attempt against national sovereignty or security" will be deported. (Article 126)

Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are themselves considered criminals under the law:

• A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)

• Shipping and airline companies that bring undocumented foreigners into Mexico will be fined. (Article 132)

 

[abecox]

I don't see why they simply don't become citizens. The USA has one of the most lax applications to Citizenship compared to the rest of the world, so why not take advantage of that and just make it official?

 

[lordnoble]

igloo,

while I support many of the ideas that Mexico has in their immigration law, I for one have NO intention of going to Mexico for ANYTHING. They can have a strict immigration law because NO ONE wants to live there. (OK, maybe not "No One", but I have yet to find any US citizen who wants to move to Mexico because it's better there.) Also, if we had the Draconian laws that Mexico has, many of our ancestors would never been allowed into the US, making it the great melting pot it is. Now, I'm not saying that we should let ANYONE come in and get Medicaid, or welfare or whatever, but to make it a felony? I wouldn't be here. My Great-Grandfather would've been deported back to Italy. Or my Great-Great-Great Grandfather (different side) would've had to eke out a living in Ireland, possibly starve. Both started out illegal, but worked hard and became contributors to their community. (Well, the one from Italy contributed heavily during Prohibition :wink I'm all for making it harder to slide by on the taxpayers dime, but I'm not against people of other countries coming here and working hard to start a better life, even if it means that they come here by not so legal means.
It's a touchy subject and I have no doubt that some may not like what I believe. That's fine. They have their opinions which I respect, and I have mine which they should respect.
-Jason

 

[hobie1dog]

bump for some newbies to join in on the discussion (please read all the previous entries as there are some good ones in here)

 

[shotokun16]

So after 7-8 months or so i realized that cigars are expensive, over-hyped,over-priced, inconsistent and deceiving. Also, the aroma can be so potent that sometimes your neighbors who are anti-smokers can smell it a mile away.
In the span of my 8 month cigar tour I've acquired two humidors (e.g. 100 ct and 50 ct window), coolidor or small ice chest, 1Lb of Heartfelt beads 65%, two digital hygrometers and about 130+ cigars (i.e. Rocky Patels(1), Olivas (4), RYJ, Padrons(2), Arturo Fuente (3), Gurkhas, Padillas, and 5 vegas). Anyways, I've concluded that pipe smoking is cheaper, honest, and classy. And the smell is extremely pleasing to the public and to my g/f. OH congrats on the appeal of the dont ask dont tell. People who are willing to die for this country should express themselves IMO.
Anyways, I'm surprised that this topic is still circulating. Well anyways, i'm coming back to the pipe community and couldnt resist the taste and smell of W.O. Larsen Signature. I was checking on my pipe tobacco which was aged on 4/25/10, and as of 12/20/10 I've discovered sugar crystals or Bloom on my S.G. Full Virginia Flake and Penzance! HMMMMM i unno what to do should i wait a little bit longer?
1: Decades, Sungrowns, 1990 Vintage, 1992 Vintage, Old World Reserve Maduros

2: 3000, 5000, 1964 Padron (M) (haven't smoked yet)

3: Hemingway, Chateaus, Opus (aging), Anejos (aging), Don Carlos (YUMMY!)

4: Oliva G, V, Flor de olivas

 

[flipflopsandshades]

A country must be able to defend its borders. Some of the greatest societies, such as Rome, were ruined due to lax border/immigration laws. Look at what is happening in France, England and other European countries being run over by illegal immigration.
2 Cents.

 

[puffintuff]

They're talking about passing a similiar bill down here in Florida. While I don't have any ill will towards anyone, I feel people should go back to their own country. Not everyone can live in the U.S. of A. Go home.

 

[chlogeo3]

Just a passing thought Puff, if everyone in the U S went back to their own country of origin then the Native American Indians would live in peace in lieu of Reservations.

 

[bogie]

Argh! I have thoughts on this matter. I dont have any worries at all about others coming to this country. Chloegeo3 is absolutely right. We came to this country, and took what we wanted.

However, we had a neighbor a few years ago, who received a phone call while i was visiting with him, that his wife was in the hospital. My wife and I took him to the hospital only to find out she had stopped at a stop sign, someone dragged her out of the car, beat the living daylights out of her, took her tops off, stole her car, and left her laying there. They found the man who did it. He was in this country illegally.

Southern justice common sense says that since he shouldn't have been here in the first place this would have never happened to his wife at all. If you look at this subject in a very narrow band, then yes that would seem to fit perfectly. Logically speaking if the damn illegal wasn't here in the first place he wouldnt have done this to a woman.

But, universal common sense would state, that the laws to become legal are easy. OK! This man didnt do what he did just because he was illegal, he did it because its what he does! PERIOD!

Universal common sense would also point out that the exact same crimes are carried out on a daily basis by men of all races, born right here in our country. But when these crimes are committed by someone who wasnt even supposed to be here in the first place, it seems to make it much much worse.

Personally, I would much rather they came here legally, but not enough that i think about it on a daily basis.

What USED to really make me mad, is someone speaking a different language taking up a job of public service! Have you ever tried to ask someone behind the counter a ? or tried to make correct change with someone behind the counter who doesnt understand a word you are saying nor you them? At first i would raise all kinds of hell, when while i was a trucker i would go and try to pay for fuel, and it take ten minutes to make a 1 minute transaction because of the language barrier.
EDUCATION is the key factor here. Educating the hard core working man in this country who has what he has because of the callousus on his hands and the sweat of his brow. It is very insulting to a hard working man to hear of ILLEGALS getting better treatment than what he has had all his life. You cant blame the working public for taking issues with that, and these are issues that need to be addressed. If we were to focus on what make people angry about the Illegals in the first place then maybe our hatred and untolerability towards this subject could be mellowed out some what.
Myself included, I cant stand racial prejudice, my father is that way, I think its a horrible thing to hate someone just because of skin color or their origins. But there are other areas in my life that need lots of attention,and learning so that i could over come those issues.

 

[hobie1dog]

Can anyone explain how most Mexicans who work here seem to always get medical care if they supposedly have no insurance? How does that work?