School me on Black Cavendish History

[Briar Lee]

Yes, I know the short story:

—

Legend has it that in 1585 the English navigator Sir Thomas Cavendish on an expedition to Virginia with Sir Richard Grenville, for the return trip to England he pressed and crammed virginia tobacco leaves in barrels previously used to transport rum. During the crossing, the pressed tobacco leaves underwent an unwanted natural fermentation process, acquiring a characteristic rhum flavor. As soon as landed at home, the “new” tobacco treated in this way met with an unexpected and immediate success and over time the casually created manufacturing process was institutionalized

—-

But tonight digging in the bottom of a crate full of tobacco I found a quarter bag of Smoker’s Pride Black Cavendish with the zip seal ripped. It has to be over ten years old.

And it’s still candy sweet, flavorful, mild, and delicious. I like lots of tobaccos but just this one, would do.

Does anyone know who first made and marketed a lot of the traditional black, gooey, sweet, inexpensive Black Cavendish?

There had to be a Prince Albert of Black Cavendish, you know?

Was it Lane?

 

[craig61a]

Embracing Ambiguity - A Deep Dive into Cavendish Tobacco

A thorough exploration of Cavendish tobacco. Let's weed through the history to make sense of this dynamic and versatile staple of pipe tobacco.

www.tobaccopipes.com

 

[cosmicfolklore]

he pressed and crammed virginia tobacco leaves in barrels

Virginias as a tobacco variant were not around at that time. Virginias, bright leaf, flu curing was invented/established, September 6, 1856... September 6, 1856: The Beginning of Brightleaf Tobacco in NC - https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/features/september-6-1856-the-beginning-of-brightleaf-tobacco-in-nc/83-314469392

The tobacco may have been from Virginia the colony, but it was not what we know of as Virginia tobacco. It had to of been a burley. Plus, cavendish is traditionally made from burley. When one imposes the cavendish process on Virginias we call it "stoved."

 

[anotherbob]

Virginias as a tobacco variant were not around at that time. Virginias, bright leaf, flu curing was invented/established, September 6, 1856... September 6, 1856: The Beginning of Brightleaf Tobacco in NC - https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/features/september-6-1856-the-beginning-of-brightleaf-tobacco-in-nc/83-314469392

The tobacco may have been from Virginia the colony, but it was not what we know of as Virginia tobacco. It had to of been a burley. Plus, cavendish is traditionally made from burley. When one imposes the cavendish process on Virginias we call it "stoved."

I swear if any of us got access to a time machine the first thing we'd do is collect out of print blends and try the stuff as far back as we could with some safety.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

swear if any of us got access to a time machine the first thing we'd do is collect out of print blends and try the stuff as far back as we could with some safety.

I think most men would be surprised at how strong tobaccos were in the days of old. So many times I have read arguments concerning the literature in historical books that claims tobacco was a "strong drug that altered consciousness." But, they argue from the current limp wristed perspective of today's tobacco selections. When really the tobaccos of our founding fathers would make most of these pencil necked geeks throw up.

 

[anotherbob]

I think most men would be surprised at how strong tobaccos were in the days of old. So many times I have read arguments concerning the literature in historical books that claims tobacco was a "strong drug that altered consciousness." But, they argue from the current limp wristed perspective of today's tobacco selections. When really the tobaccos of our founding fathers would make most of these pencil necked geeks throw up.

Though the funny thing is even from the start people made a push for weaker with a more palatable flavor. I am going paraphrase history but a few strains where discovered for Europeans at roughly the same time. And the weakest one won almost right away. The stronger stuff can certainly be pretty head spinning.
Though the funny thing with drugs is the less you've seen the effects the more pronounced they seem. Imagine somehow living a lifetime with out ever seeing alcohol or it's effects and then you run into a drunk person. You'd be so very concerned for them, might even think they were going to die or broke themselves. For example check out the initial reaction to coffee.
I read a translation of a book titled "Smoking is Sublime" and it's whole premise was that nicotine is as much a drug as cocaine and alters the psyche as much, just in a way that isn't as conscious or overt.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Though the funny thing is even from the start people made a push for weaker with a more palatable flavor. I am going paraphrase history but a few strains where discovered for Europeans at roughly the same time. And the weakest one won almost right away. The stronger stuff can certainly be pretty head spinning.
Though the funny thing with drugs is the less you've seen the effects the more pronounced they seem. Imagine somehow living a lifetime with out ever seeing alcohol or it's effects and then you run into a drunk person. You'd be so very concerned for them, might even think they were going to die or broke themselves. For example check out the initial reaction to coffee.
I read a translation of a book titled "Smoking is Sublime" and it's whole premise was that nicotine is as much a drug as cocaine and alters the psyche as much, just in a way that isn't as conscious or overt.

I think that the demand for the weaker tobaccos was a result of modern marketing. And, as usual, it started in America. While the English empire was dealing with strong burleys and head spinning lakelands (hell they had to pass a law to prevent tobacco companies from adding shredded tire rubber to their blends) in the US, Virginias, which caught on in groups of minorities first, was marketed as the minority choice. Look at all of the non-politically correct marketing for Virginias in the early 20th century. I won't post them here, but Virginias were seen as an African American preference. Then the first national corporate tobaccos were blends of burley and Virginias... Prince Albert and that genre.
But, if we slid back to the founding fathers, it is in literature quite a bit that the tobacco was strong and would make newbies throw up, until they got used to it.

 

[mso489]

I'm not up on my Cavendish history, but like most of us, I've been instructed that it is not a particular tobacco but a process that might be done with Virginia, burley, or some other type.

I will say that Cavendish is a prime condiment, often overlooked while Latakia and Perique are default condiments in vast numbers of blends and essentially over-used to my mind, love them thought I do.

 

[anotherbob]

I think that the demand for the weaker tobaccos was a result of modern marketing. And, as usual, it started in America. While the English empire was dealing with strong burleys and head spinning lakelands (hell they had to pass a law to prevent tobacco companies from adding shredded tire rubber to their blends) in the US, Virginias, which caught on in groups of minorities first, was marketed as the minority choice. Look at all of the non-politically correct marketing for Virginias in the early 20th century. I won't post them here, but Virginias were seen as an African American preference. Then the first national corporate tobaccos were blends of burley and Virginias... Prince Albert and that genre.
But, if we slid back to the founding fathers, it is in literature quite a bit that the tobacco was strong and would make newbies throw up, until they got used to it.

with chew that is still the case and in america chew and snuff were more used then pipes or cigars. but even at the start rustica lost out massivly to the the one we use now. also any drug when introduced to a group is more likely to make people sick or have other strong reaction. and you can write a big paper about all the reasons for that.

 

[bullet08]

Maybe they all inhaled back then. After few wigged gents passed out cold, some smart ass said "I smoked, but didn't inhale."

 

[Briar Lee]

My great grandfather rode with the 12th Missouri United States Volunteer Cavalry from July 1864 to April 1866.

He was part of the 1865 Powder River Expedition, and I’ve read lots of books written by Yankees in western service on the plains.

The authors all mention the men smoking, even sage grass when tobacco wasn’t available.

And when dealing with Indians, the Indians greatly coveted the white soldier’s tobacco.

When they got some, they’d smoke and smoke until was all gone, and want more.

Even then the tobacco peddlers had refined the product to where it tasted good and was addictive.

Whoever first came up with modern, gooey, sweet Black Cavendish sold all they could make.

Then they tried some vanilla in the Black Cavendish, and then cherry, but the base of every candy flavored value tobacco is cavendish.