Sasieni One Dot Find...Maybe?

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Briarberg

Might Stick Around
Aug 3, 2021
80
717
Richmond, Virginia
Sasieni Before.jpg

So I’m trying to learn some restoration and grabbed this old thing at the antique mall the other week. Stamp wasn’t really legible other than I could tell it said LONDON MADE and had some writing beneath it. As I cleaned it up the markings were a little more legible, although they seem to be mostly smoothed away for good. (I tried to mess with contrast and stuff to make it show better, I only have my phone camera.)

Stamp.jpg

To the left it seems to start PA and end with 21/20, so I assumed a patent #. Research brought me to the Sasieni One Dot. The stamp above LONDON MADE started to come through a bit more. In the above picture you can get a faint glimpse of what looks to be the fish-like flourish of the last i in the Sasieni stamp used on One Dots.

Stamp 2.jpg

The flourish comes though a bit better here. Also the first S is slightly visible.

OneDot.jpeg

Here’s an intact stamp from a One Dot on the Pipedia Sasieni page.

Stamp 92.jpg

I made out a 92 on the opposing side. I couldn’t find a reference to such a model in any of the documents I could find but I did find this Worthpoint posting referencing a One Dot 92 that seems to match the shape, though rusticated. https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-sasieni-fishtail-logo-ruff-1865981725

The dot on mine doesn’t seem very blue, but then again most pictures I’m seeing of authentic ones look white to me also, so maybe that’s just how they’ve aged from the light blue.

Or maybe just fake, I’m more familiar with the part of the chump ignorantly overpaying, so I’m not holding my breath that I stumbled into such a gem. But if it is a Sasieni One Dot, I guess it would be from either 1920s US or (more likely) 30-40s Europe. From pipedia:

“The most difficult to distinguish from 1920’s era U. S. One Dots are the European One Dots made in the 30’s and 40’s. Here you just have to know your patent numbers and hope for the best, bearing in mind virtually any pre war Sasieni is collectible. In any event, these pipes are rarely found in the U. S..”

What do we think? I know I’m in the company of much more knowledgeable folks than I. Appreciate any input!
 
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Briarberg

Might Stick Around
Aug 3, 2021
80
717
Richmond, Virginia
No one is faking Sasieni One Dots, there's simply easier pickings out, with far broader audiences.

That looks like the Pembroke to me, that is not a Shape 92
Gotcha. I also thought it looked like the Pembroke/19 S. In fact it seemed to me identical to the one in this thread but that one is stamped as such and mine has the 92 stamp.
Do you have any reference to the 92 shape? The worthpoint listing is the only thing I could find.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,632
44,863
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
I took at look at the 1924 and 1935 Sasieni Catalogs and found no mention of a pipe with the model number of 92. This isn't conclusive, as not all models were featured in their catalogs, but the 1935 does feature a list of model number and 92 doesn't appear. Nor does it appear in my late '40's Sasieni Catalog.

It's possible that the 92 isn't a model number, bur refers to something else, lost to time.
 

leonardbill1

Lifer
May 21, 2017
1,360
5,740
Denver, CO
That's a Sasieni in my opinion. I'd also think that it's from the period prior to the stamping of town names given the stamped shape number, i.e., 20s to early 30s. I have heard of the blue dots turning white over time. I have a Pembroke from the 30s that has two blue dots and two white dots.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,632
44,863
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
That's a Sasieni in my opinion. I'd also think that it's from the period prior to the stamping of town names given the stamped shape number, i.e., 20s to early 30s.
Sasieni commenced assigning town names to their pipes around November of 1923. That's the earliest ads we found with town names listed. The 1924 Maurice Rappoport Sasieni catalog has the pipes listed by town names only.
 

leonardbill1

Lifer
May 21, 2017
1,360
5,740
Denver, CO
Sasieni commenced assigning town names to their pipes around November of 1923. That's the earliest ads we found with town names listed. The 1924 Maurice Rappoport Sasieni catalog has the pipes listed by town names only.
Thanks, good to know. I was going off of the Stephen P. Smith article in the Spring 1999 issue of Pipes and Tobaccos, parts of which are reprinted in the Pipedia Sasieni section.

Out of curiosity, would you place this pipe in the early 20s? Given what apparently can be seen of the patent number, it seems that the whole patent number would be 150221/20. If Mr. Smith isn't leading me astray again, his article says that patent number relates to pipes exported to the US and that the one dot on pipes exported to the US was replaced in the mid-20s with four dots.
 

sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,632
44,863
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com
Thanks, good to know. I was going off of the Stephen P. Smith article in the Spring 1999 issue of Pipes and Tobaccos, parts of which are reprinted in the Pipedia Sasieni section.

Out of curiosity, would you place this pipe in the early 20s? Given what apparently can be seen of the patent number, it seems that the whole patent number would be 150221/20. If Mr. Smith isn't leading me astray again, his article says that patent number relates to pipes exported to the US and that the one dot on pipes exported to the US was replaced in the mid-20s with four dots.
It would almost certainly have to be from the early '20's. Dunhill sued Sasieni over its use of a one dot stem logo and won the US part of the suit, while losing the European part of the suit, in 1924.

So for US bound product Sasieni had to give up the one dot stem logo and after a period of experimentation with side dots and other trial balloons, decided on the 4 dot logo.

Mr Smith is correct.
 

Briarberg

Might Stick Around
Aug 3, 2021
80
717
Richmond, Virginia
I took at look at the 1924 and 1935 Sasieni Catalogs and found no mention of a pipe with the model number of 92. This isn't conclusive, as not all models were featured in their catalogs, but the 1935 does feature a list of model number and 92 doesn't appear. Nor does it appear in my late '40's Sasieni Catalog.

It's possible that the 92 isn't a model number, bur refers to something else, lost to time.
Interesting! and thank you for looking into it. What's a story without a little mystery, anyway?
 

Briarberg

Might Stick Around
Aug 3, 2021
80
717
Richmond, Virginia
That's a Sasieni in my opinion. I'd also think that it's from the period prior to the stamping of town names given the stamped shape number, i.e., 20s to early 30s. I have heard of the blue dots turning white over time. I have a Pembroke from the 30s that has two blue dots and two white dots.
I see, thanks for the info! Yeah that blue was already so light, not surprised that it would fade over time.
 

Briarberg

Might Stick Around
Aug 3, 2021
80
717
Richmond, Virginia
Well done on scoring that pipe.
And great job cleaning it up. It's come up really well.
Thanks Oz! As I said, I'm pretty green at this. I think it's funny, my goal was to leave that shop with a cheap, beat up pipe to practice on. Had I known what I had at the time, I may have opted to send it out to a professional. But I'm quite happy with how it's come out! I'm going to have my first smoke with it this afternoon.