Question for Pipe Makers About Lees

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Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,759
13,783
Humansville Missouri
I’ve been accused of being a Lee cheerleader but that’s not strong enough. I’m a Disciple of Pipes by Lee. I honestly recommend them to my friends over all other brands of factory pipes, and I still buy several a month, although I already own about a hundred.

But a Pipe by a Lee is not fancy grained, like often lesser pipes were.


Lee didn’t compete using breath taking grain.

Here is a typical example, a large (for a Lee) saddle bit 7 pointed star Billiard. I have almost a hundred other examples, of ten dollar pipes in a market where a good pipe cost a dollar, with workmanlike cross grain.

2F7C0544-2B98-45E5-8231-64511E272440.jpeg988F286B-F77E-44A4-95BD-AA9E78D97FEF.jpeg38A084BC-D7DE-47E8-B367-5129F168A8B9.jpeg4632A731-E6BB-4EF9-8272-35C46AD46076.jpeg65C7FFBF-C661-4D84-85E3-50BECBE9BBF1.jpeg214213D9-2AC1-45E7-809C-8464B7466F95.jpegWhy are fancy flame and birdseye and straight grain Lees hardly ever found today?
 

cigrmaster

Lifer
May 26, 2012
20,249
57,280
66
Sarasota Florida
I think it is great to have the kind of passion that you do about Lee Pipes. I can see how far down the rabbit hole you go with your preciouses. Having that kind of focus for one brand is not that unusual, but the sheer numbers you own is impressive.

I am not that kind of collector. I prefer artisan made pipes buy people I have had experience with and I trust them to make my pipes to my specifications which are very precise.

It is interesting how we all go about collection our favorites and it is great we have very diverse ways of doing it.
 

hugodrax

Can't Leave
Jan 24, 2013
448
669
Lee was a perfect example of mid-century American marketing flummery designed to convince the man who had to watch his shekels that he was getting more pipe than he should for the money. World's best briar my sainted Aunt.

And it didn't work on many people, as the number of unsmoked or lightly-smoked pipes for sale out there testify. The man who didn't have to worry bought Kaywoodies or English pipes or pipes carved on the premises at numerous shops. The guy who watched his shekels bought secondary brands or shilling briars or low priced name brand pipes.

I wonder how many Lee's were gifts from the wife that were put away for either sentimental or "Gee, thanks" reasons. If you take away the advertising jargon, they're pretty bog standard pipes.

That said, have at it, sir. Glad you love them and seek them out!
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,759
13,783
Humansville Missouri
Lee was a perfect example of mid-century American marketing flummery designed to convince the man who had to watch his shekels that he was getting more pipe than he should for the money. World's best briar my sainted Aunt.

And it didn't work on many people, as the number of unsmoked or lightly-smoked pipes for sale out there testify. The man who didn't have to worry bought Kaywoodies or English pipes or pipes carved on the premises at numerous shops. The guy who watched his shekels bought secondary brands or shilling briars or low priced name brand pipes.

I wonder how many Lee's were gifts from the wife that were put away for either sentimental or "Gee, thanks" reasons. If you take away the advertising jargon, they're pretty bog standard pipes.

That said, have at it, sir. Glad you love them and seek them out!
That pretty well exactly sums up what I thought.

What protected so very many Pipes by Lee is a cigarette smoker was given one as a gift by the women who loved him.

I used to think all Lees were mail order, but recently discovered Lee competed head to head and toe to toe in retail shops where pipes were sold.

For maybe ten years after the war, Lee had a monopoly on five, ten, fifteen, and twenty five dollar pipes with perfectly inlaid jeweler’s gold stars.

6FAD948C-3C7B-456C-BB28-1D63E359A93C.png

That blackened middle star on the left pipe will shine like gold again using gold and silver polish, in seconds.

Lee had the world’s best way to join briar to vulcanite but the lady who bought those, didn’t know that.

The shop was full of equally well made factory pipes, but she didn’t know that either.

It might have been Christmas 1946, her man had survived World War Two, and she reached for the stars.:)

For Lee’s first cache of briar, he had to do the best he could with it.

For the second, he could be more selective.

Out of about a hundred Lees, here’s the flashiest one. It’s an early 7 point Two Star.

0CB0E277-DD14-49F2-9995-CDC1D6329C17.jpeg9AE17DE6-B61F-48A4-8B51-F5CA37BD61FD.jpegBB9E51AE-6152-4B69-BF22-920A95C254A2.jpeg1B70E5BB-E2CA-4121-B5D7-789685930382.jpeg

All my Lees are pretty but maybe just that one is conventionally gorgeous.

Why?

Did men burn up and toss all the gorgeous examples, or were there not many with flashy grain?
 
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Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,759
13,783
Humansville Missouri
I honestly like the way most old pipes look, so I may not be a discriminating “briar” of pipes! 😀
Pipes by Lee were conventional in shapes, sizes, colors, and grain.

Here’s London Made Piccadilly fancier, gaudier, and flashier than the wildest standard production Lee ever made in New York.


B6CDE2B6-A57B-4032-8BCE-52B155813683.jpegA2E929C2-0398-4874-A895-1B5606F76C17.jpeg$27 delivered on eBay, in the last hour.
 
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hugodrax

Can't Leave
Jan 24, 2013
448
669
Pipes by Lee were conventional in shapes, sizes, colors, and grain.

Here’s London Made Piccadilly fancier, gaudier, and flashier than the wildest standard production Lee ever made in New York.


View attachment 164210View attachment 164212$27 delivered on eBay, in the last hour.

That's a pretty pipe.

The fellow who took me under his wing years ago was a big fan of old Comoys and Charatans and brands with orific bits, so I've always had a soft spot for factory pipes and don't consider them in any way inferior to so called "artisan pipes." Nobody can make a billiard like Comoy's to my eyes, which I freely admit is bias!

Lee's are an interesting subset of American factory pipes. They're not as handsome to me as a kaywoodie, but I have one with pretty awesome gran you've inspired me to clean up and see how she smokes.

Don't worry. We're not going to compete for resources!
 

HawkeyeLinus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2020
5,580
40,853
Iowa
Pipes by Lee were conventional in shapes, sizes, colors, and grain.

Here’s London Made Piccadilly fancier, gaudier, and flashier than the wildest standard production Lee ever made in New York.


View attachment 164210View attachment 164212$27 delivered on eBay, in the last hour.
I can safely say I'd take any Lee you've posted over that!
 
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Feb 12, 2022
3,404
46,942
31
North Georgia mountains.
I wonder how concerned "Lee" was with grain orientation back then. Some Lees are full of fills and pits, others are not but don't display any straight grain or birds eye, etc. And some actually have some decent grain. Id bet they just used whatever blocks they came across and then graded them accordingly. Not being overly concerned with grain orientation would allow for more output and productivity. No clue if any of this is true, but I'd bet that Lee wasn't a grain snob and his pipes were priced accordingly. Hell, I'd bet consumers back in the 50s and 60s weren't grain snobs anywhere near like they are today. They just wanted a well smoking pipe without spending a chunk.
But what do I know.
 
Feb 12, 2022
3,404
46,942
31
North Georgia mountains.
That's a pretty pipe.

The fellow who took me under his wing years ago was a big fan of old Comoys and Charatans and brands with orific bits, so I've always had a soft spot for factory pipes and don't consider them in any way inferior to so called "artisan pipes." Nobody can make a billiard like Comoy's to my eyes, which I freely admit is bias!

Lee's are an interesting subset of American factory pipes. They're not as handsome to me as a kaywoodie, but I have one with pretty awesome gran you've inspired me to clean up and see how she smokes.

Don't worry. We're not going to compete for resources!
The higher end, early Comoys and Charatans really are hard to beat as far as pipes from that time period go. Especially for the prices you can score score for now on the estate market.
 
Feb 12, 2022
3,404
46,942
31
North Georgia mountains.
How do we determine what good grain is? Is this a subjective thing?
My take: we all know what different types there are. Flame, birds eye, straight, etc.
How good or bad those types are visually is subjective. But I think one could argue good grain as fact based on tightness of the grain, lack of pits and fills, and consistency of grain pattern.
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,759
13,783
Humansville Missouri
Pipes by Lee is defunct.

I’ve seen some Italy stamped Briarlees, and maybe there are some Lee Star Grades in name only, but to the last push stem, stamped star Lee made in New York, a Lee was a first class, quality made, factory pipe.

50c1c043-d4d7-4096-bb85-5cfb2ed5325f-jpeg.164229
6B380D43-0FE3-4A99-B56A-B070D282B154.jpegAB627BC2-AB49-45C1-AB51-AAB6A95425D1.jpegC0E320C0-73D4-47FD-BD57-F0A74FAC0D6A.jpegC4DB83F7-1544-4BB7-9041-2B4BCDB94FC7.jpeg636D1E33-197D-4C2F-8632-941A5321DD51.jpegThe first 1946 production Lee Star Grades had:

1. 7 pointed gold stars, carefully and deeply inlaid. They don’t turn green, they can always be restored to gleaming by gold and silver polish, and they were grade stamps, two for $5, three for $10 (most commonly found) four for $15 (rare) and five for $25 ( highest priced factory pipe in the world in 1946). This changed to 5 pointed Inlaid stars sometime after 1950, with no loss at all of any quality, then stamped stars with fake gold foil that quickly rubs off, on the last production.

3A46D955-B305-4E07-9A84-9D29AF250715.jpeg2. Lee used a hidden, invisible aluminum mortise and adjustable aluminum acre tenon with a removable stinger at first. The last Lee production was a common push stem. In between can be found Kaywoodie type mortises.

3. Even the last Lees, plus all Briarlee pipes, had some curing process that made breaking in one sweet and pleasurable. My assumption is they were oil cured, like the best London made pipes had been for years in 1946. Whatever curing used, a new old stock Lee made pipe today still is sweet from the first lighting. This late push stem Two Star Lee was as sweet on first lighting as old 7 point star Lees. There are an astounding number of unsmoked Lees still for sale.

2699971A-D484-4BA1-90F7-05BCF07D0703.jpeg

If you like conventional shapes in smaller sizes than fashionable today, a Lee is by far the best value in old American factory pipes.

For so long as Lee offered the hidden screw stem with removable stinger, it solved every problem with loose and too tight stems, cracked tenons, cracked shanks, and all the ills a push stem caused and still does cause today.

791652CA-E370-4BD1-BC44-858F13419C9A.jpegLees are dressy.

They were high dollar pipes intended to be proud of, to both give and receive.

Nothing looks better while wearing a suit.
 

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Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,759
13,783
Humansville Missouri
How do we determine what good grain is? Is this a subjective thing?
Sort of.

So is a Miss America pageant, and so are Playboy Bunnies.

This a famous 1948 photo of a 16 year old Elizabeth Taylor, who might be the most beautiful modern woman ever photographed.

5CC25C15-679A-4973-BD8D-3C6AA0304A84.jpegShe had double eyelashes.

The proportions of her face, have been used by plastic surgeons since as ideal.

And you can’t tell if she’s 16 or 26 or 36 in most of her photos.

She was a sex symbol for over sixty years.

Compare a 1946 Norma Jean with a 1953 Marylyn Monroe.
5125B034-9E58-4FC2-B090-80347839BC35.jpeg1D9DAAE2-EBB5-436A-834F-F6A2704C13F7.jpeg
Liz Taylor was born pretty.

Marylyn had to wear make up.
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,759
13,783
Humansville Missouri
I wonder how concerned "Lee" was with grain orientation back then. Some Lees are full of fills and pits, others are not but don't display any straight grain or birds eye, etc. And some actually have some decent grain. Id bet they just used whatever blocks they came across and then graded them accordingly. Not being overly concerned with grain orientation would allow for more output and productivity. No clue if any of this is true, but I'd bet that Lee wasn't a grain snob and his pipes were priced accordingly. Hell, I'd bet consumers back in the 50s and 60s weren't grain snobs anywhere near like they are today. They just wanted a well smoking pipe without spending a chunk.
But what do I know.

Jguss recently proved to me, that whoever selected and bought this $10 retail pipe in 1946 bought it in preference to a $10 Kaywoodie Flame Grain in the same retail shop.

The $10 Three Star might have been the highest grade of Lee marketed directly to retailers. Above a $10 Three Star was likely a custom order.

EE90790C-2E53-45DA-9C97-F119F28A66D3.jpegA $10 pipe was either a rare indulgence or a very expensive gift in 1946.

The grain should have been the best in the store.
 

ashdigger

Lifer
Jul 30, 2016
11,378
70,055
60
Vegas Baby!!!
Jguss recently proved to me, that whoever selected and bought this $10 retail pipe in 1946 bought it in preference to a $10 Kaywoodie Flame Grain in the same retail shop.

The $10 Three Star might have been the highest grade of Lee marketed directly to retailers. Above a $10 Three Star was likely a custom order.

View attachment 164249A $10 pipe was either a rare indulgence or a very expensive gift in 1946.

The grain should have been the best in the store.
I mean this with all due respect.

Grain had little or nothing to do with pipes until people had time on their hands and an easy life.

I predominantly collect Loewes, Peterson’s and BBB from approximately 1886 to 1938 and not ONE has stellar grain.

This is another long thread about shit you make up with your free time.

Kudos.

BTW, here’s a 1900 Loewe Spigot that holds the collector value of 800 Lee’s

FFD15918-5FC0-47C4-97BB-9F3C200C1853.jpeg
 

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,759
13,783
Humansville Missouri
I mean this with all due respect.

Grain had little or nothing to do with pipes until people had time on their hands and an easy life.

I predominantly collect Loewes, Peterson’s and BBB from approximately 1886 to 1938 and not ONE has stellar grain.

This is another long thread about shit you make up with your free time.

Kudos.

BTW, here’s a 1900 Loewe Spigot that holds the collector value of 800 Lee’s

View attachment 164256
What makes all this so much fun, is that super valuable collector pipe is worth several times my entire stash of a hundred or so Lees.

And it has no better grain, and smokes no better.

That’s quite a spigot gadget on that 1900 pipe.

Is that gadget what makes it rare?

In 1900 without that, would have it been just another pipe?