Are pre-2007 blends really safe from all this FDA nonsense?
Might we be blindsided if we make this assumption?
Might we be blindsided if we make this assumption?
Pre 2007 Blends - Are They Really Safe?
- Thread starter stanlaurel
- Start date
SmokingPipes.com Updates
Watch for Updates Twice a Week
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
Site Sponsors
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
PipesMagazine Approved Sponsor
- Status
WIth government you always need to remember it's always about special-interest money. The FDA, at the behest of the big tobacco corporations, is aiming at vaping. Small boutique pipe tobacco blenders and cigar manufacturers are merely collateral damage. Fortuitous to the big corporations, but not the prime target.
The government has unlimited regulatory power, because creating regulations is inexpensive. The enforcement of those regulations is costly, so that's where they become quite discretionary. I believe they will bias their enforcement toward vaping manufacturers and sellers, the actual target of the legislation. I will honestly be shocked if they actually have any intention of enforcing any of the regulations against pipe tobacco blenders, short of a callout by the vaping industry.
The government has unlimited regulatory power, because creating regulations is inexpensive. The enforcement of those regulations is costly, so that's where they become quite discretionary. I believe they will bias their enforcement toward vaping manufacturers and sellers, the actual target of the legislation. I will honestly be shocked if they actually have any intention of enforcing any of the regulations against pipe tobacco blenders, short of a callout by the vaping industry.
You know that twisting feeling in your gut you get when someone says, "That can't happen here!"? The spooky realization that you're dealing with a person of unfathomable stupidity, and one with absolutely no acquaintance with human history? That's the feeling I get from the phrase, "Pre-2007 blends are safe".
I have a new word for the people behind all of this: Ideocrats. Ideological bureaucrats.
It is a mistake to think that they are motivated, controlled or restricted by money. Their motivations are political, ideological and bureaucratic. Money only enters into the equation insofar as the bureaucrats do their best to cover their costs, bring in extra cash to make themselves look good and extract money from the people and entities that they control as a form of punishment. But even if the money isn't there, they will pursue their ideological and bureaucratic goals.
Otherwise, it's just OPM (Other People's Money) that they are extracting and using, and when has the government ever cared about the people they are controlling?
To answer the OP's question: Nothing is safe. But at this point in time, there isn't anything imminent to suggest that the FDA will be going after pre-2007 blends specifically, although those blends must still need to become compliant with all of the new deeming regs in terms of packaging, warning labels and many other new strictures that will raise the cost of production. I would not be surprised to see the demise of low-volume sellers.
Here is the rub, pipe tobacco, vaping and cigars are not specified in the legislation that gives the FDA the right to regulate tobacco products; this is why the FDA is saying that they are deeming these products.
I do not think that any tobacco product, or e-cigarettes which contain no tobacco, is ultimately safe. The saddest part is that the safest are probably cigarettes and dip because of the size of these companies and the political influence they wield.
My feelings exactly as their (FDA) prime target, thanks to Philip Morris and R.J Reynolds, is the e-cig industry and pipe tobacco and cigars were simply unfortunate collateral damage. As you stated, enforcing these haphazard regulations takes money so I believe the e-cig industry will get the full brunt and their attention will be focused on them.
The pre-2007 limit is a way of stopping the development and innovation in the business. This will make the pre-2007 blends more expensive because of lost profits on new blends, then likely taxes will jack up the prices some more, shrinking the market again. However, push-back hasn't set in yet. Law suits, surges in sales of blends on both sides of 2007 whether legal or sub-rosa, and so on, may gain reconsideration. When grandpas start getting perp-walked by the ATF or the local sheriff, I think the public is not going to be too happy. Keep a walker close at hand whether you need it or not. The regs should have addressed vapes, if that is the problem, and the FDA should have shut down on the pipes and cigars portions of this, out of common sense.
That's correct. E-Cigs, vaping, etc are automatically covered under the "smokeless" definition.
Not all products available before, on, and after Feb 15, 2007 are automatically grandfathered. Blends which used flavorings or ingredients that are banned will go the way of the dodo. Labeling will have to be redone to allow for warnings and other defacement. Inevitably there will be additional costs associated with keeping even a "grandfathered" blend on the market, such as registering it, reporting and verifying the ingredients with the FDA, retooling packaging, etc, that will affect various manufacturers decisions on continuing to supply it. I agree with the supposition that marginal sellers will get chopped.
I also believe that people are inventive and some will figure out and offer products that offer variety and skirt the Regs. One may not be able to sell finished products, but one can sell components. So we don't know what will happen.
Honestly, there are very few blends post 2007 that are extreme favorites of mine and I just stock up on the ones I love now because if anything, they will never be cheaper than the time I bought them and don't trust that they will be readily available in the future. I'm sure tins will still be around in the future but they will cost roughly $100 per 50 gram tin. Kinda like what they're paying now in Canada.
I tend to agree with woodsroad about the ideocrats. Big Tobacco and many politicians are motivated by the money, but the b-crats that make this more threatening are motivated by their goal(s) of a remade society. It is the much used phrase "social engineering" writ large. The managerial state supplants the idea of government as we tend to think of it working through representation. For a serious critique read Paul Gottfried's book "After Liberalism" (Princeton Univ. Press). This isn't a three pipe problem. It more like a three pounds of tobacco problem!
One issue I see is if the post 2007 blends make up a majority of sales for a company so that they have to shut down this loosing both pre and post blends.
shain', that's an important point. The majority of the market is aromatics, and keeping that market profitable depends on bringing out new flavors on a regular basis. With that revenue stream narrowed, the whole business will take a hit, including all the pre-2007 blends, aromatic and non. The tobacco pipe segment is the most economical for the consumer, the smallest demographic, and has (I think) the greatest concentration of small businesses involved, and is therefore most vulnerable.
- Status