This was supposed to be a serious thread..
I regret my behavior with that ham. I woke up in the kitchen floor with a ham bone in my mouth, and my pants around my ankles.
Planting Some Tobacco This Spring
- Thread starter Richmond B. Funkenhouser
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This was supposed to be a serious thread..
I regret my behavior with that ham. I woke up in the kitchen floor with a ham bone in my mouth, and my pants around my ankles.
Back to the Funkhouse.
(that’s what you can name your Greenhouse where you start your seedlings)
(that’s what you can name your Greenhouse where you start your seedlings)
Tobacco takes several weeks to get from germination to seedling size ready to transplant so as @F4RM3R advised, get germinating some NOW.
Burley is roughly 3 times stronger in nicotine than Virginia & Orientals so keep that in mind when choosing varieties.
Whole leaf tobacco needs to be aged for at least a year & cased for it to taste good.
My first efforts turned out rather well. At the time I could not find any info so just winged it.
The tobacco was brittle dry so I sprayed the Virginia leaf with a mix of water/port/brandy. Dried it. Resprayed with the mix. Once dried again it was like soft leather.
It was quite a nice smoke, especially when mixed with some commercial baccy. Friends also enjoyed it for RYO.
Interestingly I could not really taste the alcohol casing.
This year I've got several Burley plants - I was late with the Virginia that didn't do well being transplanted in the Summer heat - Burley is too strong in Vit N for me so I'll be turning it into Black Cavendish.
Check out www.fairtradetobacco.com Members are really helpful. Lot's of info there for newbie growers.
Many of them say that their homegrown and blends that they make from bought whole leaf is far superior to commercial blends. That gives me a lot of hope since my stash will not last forever.
The forum owner sells seeds & there's members who sell whole leaf at great prices.
Burley is roughly 3 times stronger in nicotine than Virginia & Orientals so keep that in mind when choosing varieties.
Whole leaf tobacco needs to be aged for at least a year & cased for it to taste good.
My first efforts turned out rather well. At the time I could not find any info so just winged it.
The tobacco was brittle dry so I sprayed the Virginia leaf with a mix of water/port/brandy. Dried it. Resprayed with the mix. Once dried again it was like soft leather.
It was quite a nice smoke, especially when mixed with some commercial baccy. Friends also enjoyed it for RYO.
Interestingly I could not really taste the alcohol casing.
This year I've got several Burley plants - I was late with the Virginia that didn't do well being transplanted in the Summer heat - Burley is too strong in Vit N for me so I'll be turning it into Black Cavendish.
Check out www.fairtradetobacco.com Members are really helpful. Lot's of info there for newbie growers.
Many of them say that their homegrown and blends that they make from bought whole leaf is far superior to commercial blends. That gives me a lot of hope since my stash will not last forever.
The forum owner sells seeds & there's members who sell whole leaf at great prices.
Yes, meth is bad. I don't smoke that shit either.
Some nice homegrown weed on the other hand .......... for medicinal purposes off course : )
Nice. Well burley is a good place to start and rustica is also easy to harvest and dry as you can just hang the whole plant up when the time comes. Leaves will be much stronger at the top of the plant, so it's good to keep that in mind when blending and bagging when everything is dry.
I would build a simple curing chamber and you won't have to wait years to get some finished product...well if everything else goes smoothly of course. It's an easy plant to grow though. Similar to tomatoes(same family)
Yes I'll admit theres room in my heart for two or three plants. Coffee, tobacco and, like you said meth is bad.. medical weed not so much. We dont have that in my state so I don't grow that anymore.
That is actually my only past experience gardening, tomatoes that is. My wife has the green thumb. I'm sure if i can provide her the information on tobacco specifically, she will help me as well. What does a curing chamber consist of?
Thanks for the link. Looks like lots of good info there. Its going to be hard to get any work done this week with all this tobacco farming and reading to do.
We have a medicinal cannabis program designed by a PM with big investment in Big pHarma & whose wife was a CEO of a multinational pHarma co.
So naturally few have been able to jump through the miles of red tape to be approved & those who have are charged anywhere between $1k to $1.5k for a months worth of medicine.
I've been a patient of a pain clinic for 20 years. In that time I've seen a big change in attitude from the doctors. Without my medicine life sucks big time. Nothing like nerve pain.
I've known 7 other patients who've committed suicide due to nerve pain. Sad to think that they would not have suffered & would still be alive if they had access to a plant.
And yes, as it's illegal here I would not dare think about breaking bullshit laws passed by greedy fat-cats. No-siree-Bob. : )
For the tobacco to be smokeable, proteins and carbohydrates which are in fresh tobacco must be broken down. This can be accomplished by sweating in piles, kilning, or aging. Below I will paste a good explanation with a link to the thread on the fairtradetobacco site.
***************
Ammonia is created within the leaf during oxidation of the leaf's proteins. If there is no oxidation, then there is no ammonia produced. The oxidation is not caused by microbes or air, but by two oxidase enzymes still present within the leaf after the lamina have died. Both require moisture to function in breaking down albuminous proteins and carbohydrates. One of the enzymes is destroyed if the leaf reaches 141°F, so is lacking in flue-cured leaf after it has been flue-cured. The more heat-stable enzyme survives and functions up to about 191°F. This second oxidase enzyme operates much more slowly than the first, but it is what permits flue-cured leaf to very slowly age. Once leaf has been heated above 191°F, it can no longer age. So toasted leaf and Cavendish or otherwise boiled or steamed leaf no longer has the ability to age in the sense that we understand tobacco aging.
"Sweating" is an imprecise term with many meanings. "Fermentation", likewise offers its own confusions. Both of them refer to conditions that allow the process of oxidation discussed in the previous paragraph. The leaf must have some moisture (is not completely dry), and must be at a temperature of about 60°F or higher. Since the oxidation reaction is temperature dependent, the higher the temp, the more rapidly the reaction runs (up to the point that the enzyme itself is cooked or denatured).
Cured leaf that is hanging in a humid shed or tobacco barn while temperatures rise (as in the springtime) will resume enzymatic oxidation. The rate of that oxidation tends to cycle with the ambient temperature. Once most of the proteins and carbs have been oxidized (incidentally releasing ammonia radicals from certain proteins), the rate slows dramatically, though it can continue for years at a snail's pace.
Cured leaf that is closely packed within bales or into piles (pilones) acts as its own insulation, so that the slight, chemical heat generated by the oxidation is trapped, increasing the oxidation rate and thereby generating even more heat. So baled or piled tobacco can warm itself (even to the point of starting a smoldering fire, if the conditions are just right). When this happens in bales, simply separating the individual bales with a slight air space will often be enough to slow or halt the process. When this occurs during intentional "fermentation" piles, the temperature is allowed to reach a previously decided max temp, at which the pile is broken down and reassembled, and the process started over again.
"Aging" of tobacco refers to exactly the same chemical process of oxidation. Once most of the work of oxidation has been completed, "aging" appears as a subtle, gradual process. But it's the very same thing happening (at a slower rate) as happens with "sweating" and "fermentation".
We often say things like "burley is not fermented," and "cigar leaf is always fermented." The only real difference is that most cigar varieties require a lot more oxidation to tame the proteins and carbohydrates, when compared to burley or other non-cigar varieties. "Fermenting" non-cigar varieties does not cause them to smell or taste like cigar varieties. Those distinct characteristics are inherent within the specific tobacco varieties.
Kilning
A kiln allows you to achieve the moisture and temperature conditions required for optimal oxidation rates. It's not dependent on bailing or creating 5000 pound piles, or waiting for the weather to be just right. The kiln enforces the humidity, and enforces the desired temperature. It's the same as "sweating" or "fermentation" or "aging". Once the leaf has mostly oxidized its proteins and carbohydrates, all that remains to be accomplished is a "resting" and "airing" period (days to weeks) in order to allow the newly created ammonia that is still dissolved within the moisture of the leaf lamina to dissipate into the air. Allowing the leaf to completely dry (go out of case) can speed this process of ammonia evaporation. The leaf, of course, needs to be brought back into low case prior to handling.
If kilned or "sweated" or "fermented" or "aged" tobacco has an ammonia smell, it means that additional oxidation has taken place.
**************
fairtradetobacco.com
***************
Ammonia is created within the leaf during oxidation of the leaf's proteins. If there is no oxidation, then there is no ammonia produced. The oxidation is not caused by microbes or air, but by two oxidase enzymes still present within the leaf after the lamina have died. Both require moisture to function in breaking down albuminous proteins and carbohydrates. One of the enzymes is destroyed if the leaf reaches 141°F, so is lacking in flue-cured leaf after it has been flue-cured. The more heat-stable enzyme survives and functions up to about 191°F. This second oxidase enzyme operates much more slowly than the first, but it is what permits flue-cured leaf to very slowly age. Once leaf has been heated above 191°F, it can no longer age. So toasted leaf and Cavendish or otherwise boiled or steamed leaf no longer has the ability to age in the sense that we understand tobacco aging.
"Sweating" is an imprecise term with many meanings. "Fermentation", likewise offers its own confusions. Both of them refer to conditions that allow the process of oxidation discussed in the previous paragraph. The leaf must have some moisture (is not completely dry), and must be at a temperature of about 60°F or higher. Since the oxidation reaction is temperature dependent, the higher the temp, the more rapidly the reaction runs (up to the point that the enzyme itself is cooked or denatured).
Cured leaf that is hanging in a humid shed or tobacco barn while temperatures rise (as in the springtime) will resume enzymatic oxidation. The rate of that oxidation tends to cycle with the ambient temperature. Once most of the proteins and carbs have been oxidized (incidentally releasing ammonia radicals from certain proteins), the rate slows dramatically, though it can continue for years at a snail's pace.
Cured leaf that is closely packed within bales or into piles (pilones) acts as its own insulation, so that the slight, chemical heat generated by the oxidation is trapped, increasing the oxidation rate and thereby generating even more heat. So baled or piled tobacco can warm itself (even to the point of starting a smoldering fire, if the conditions are just right). When this happens in bales, simply separating the individual bales with a slight air space will often be enough to slow or halt the process. When this occurs during intentional "fermentation" piles, the temperature is allowed to reach a previously decided max temp, at which the pile is broken down and reassembled, and the process started over again.
"Aging" of tobacco refers to exactly the same chemical process of oxidation. Once most of the work of oxidation has been completed, "aging" appears as a subtle, gradual process. But it's the very same thing happening (at a slower rate) as happens with "sweating" and "fermentation".
We often say things like "burley is not fermented," and "cigar leaf is always fermented." The only real difference is that most cigar varieties require a lot more oxidation to tame the proteins and carbohydrates, when compared to burley or other non-cigar varieties. "Fermenting" non-cigar varieties does not cause them to smell or taste like cigar varieties. Those distinct characteristics are inherent within the specific tobacco varieties.
Kilning
A kiln allows you to achieve the moisture and temperature conditions required for optimal oxidation rates. It's not dependent on bailing or creating 5000 pound piles, or waiting for the weather to be just right. The kiln enforces the humidity, and enforces the desired temperature. It's the same as "sweating" or "fermentation" or "aging". Once the leaf has mostly oxidized its proteins and carbohydrates, all that remains to be accomplished is a "resting" and "airing" period (days to weeks) in order to allow the newly created ammonia that is still dissolved within the moisture of the leaf lamina to dissipate into the air. Allowing the leaf to completely dry (go out of case) can speed this process of ammonia evaporation. The leaf, of course, needs to be brought back into low case prior to handling.
If kilned or "sweated" or "fermented" or "aged" tobacco has an ammonia smell, it means that additional oxidation has taken place.
**************
Is there any way to mellow out shredded tobacco ?
Muggs, Is you burley from the 2018 season? Has it been kilned? If the answers are yes and no, respectively, then you're just smoking the stuff way too soon. Bob Yes,the burley turn dark drown.smells wonderful.im smoking this straight, An it make me cough, an has an bitter after taste. I...
Keeping in mind that flue curing Virginia is another animal entirely. Anyway though, getting smokeable stuff ain't rocket surgery 
.Best is to just hurry up and grow something. Then, if you don't get around to building a kiln you will still have tobacco in year or two.
.Best is to just hurry up and grow something. Then, if you don't get around to building a kiln you will still have tobacco in year or two.
@davek thank you for this post. In the absence of a kiln, would compacting and wrapping a few pounds of air-dried leaf achieve what's happening when tobacco is stacked and canvased in bales, or is there just not enough critical mass to reach any sort of reasonable temperature? I'd think if no different from composting, it should work if it is insulated a bit to keep heat in, do you agree?
No, those bails are huge, like 4' x4' x4' ish in size. That would take quite a few more plants than even I have room to grow.
Building a kiln is very easy. You just need some insulated wall panels, some duct tape, and a heat source... which a few thrift store crock pots can do. Making one is easy... keeping the tobacco rotated and in check is the daunting daily part.
My flu kiln has four crock pots for heat and humidity. I built mine to be more permanent and flexible, for if I want to fire cure some also,
Here is the last thread from my crop posts. I have had a few other long threads from previous years also. The links are within this last thread.
Cosmic Crop 2018 :: Pipe Tobacco Discussion
So, here we go. I will do my best to show how easy it is to grow your own tobacco, and hopefully encourage a few more of you to try it yourself. The more the merrier. Actually, growing the tobacco is easier than anything else in the garden. The trick is what you do with it afterwards. But...
pipesmagazine.com
Actually, the more you get into this, you learn that the trade name "Virginias" is mostly a marketing term for pipes and cigarettes. This variety is known in the growing side of the trade as Brightleafs, and you can flu cure any of those varieties. You can skip flu curing, but what you get is not sweet at all and mostly just harsh on your throat.
Before you can start researching some best practices, you have to unlearn a lot of the "back of the tin" marketing terminology altogether. For example, there is no such thing as a red Virginia in the growing and manufacturing end. It is color cured, like cigar leaf. And, that is just one aspect. There are quite a few terms and things you have to unlearn also. Otherwise, you just won't find any information using the wrong terminology.
Thanks again cosmic, I'll see where I get to after I plant.
I got a cold smoker which I wonder if I could repurpose as a kiln. I'm thinking not because it is not insulated, it is basically a metal box with a heating element on the base.
I got a cold smoker which I wonder if I could repurpose as a kiln. I'm thinking not because it is not insulated, it is basically a metal box with a heating element on the base.
I made a fire cure kiln from one of those pellet feed meat smokers and a 55 gallon drum. I made about five pounds of fire cured Virginias which worked out way better than I expected.
I have an online friend who only grows two cigar leaf plants and uses a styrofoam cooler with a heat lamp to cure and color cure his cigar leafs.
There are also guys who convert old refrigerators, but really just a $10 insulated panel can be cut up to make a simple cube, and then just a crockpot will give you enough heat and moisture to make a burley more sociable to smoke.
But, really, burleys are way easier because you really don't need any of this, just hang it in your attic for a couple of years will make you a fairly good product.
Flu curing, color curing, brightleafs has a much greater learning curve... and harvesting the leafs one or two a day on your brightleafs gives you such a difficult task of running them all in just one kiln. Especially if you just have one kiln. The flu kiln really needs to be filled up, and set up to run the whole load on a rise and fall to give you control over your process. Brightleaf or Virginias really aren't the best varieties to start with.
There are some fairly sweet burleys. One brightleaf called cherry red also makes a sweet air cure.
As Sykes has pointed out in a past post, new tobacco research shows that there really isn't a difference between brightleafs and burleys. If you look at how the whole flu curing process started, it was the mistake of a barn burning down that the slaves noticed that the poor quality burley grown in very poor soil that was subjected to the heat of the barn fire actually had a sweeter flavor. This was like around the 1860's.
But, when the brightleafs are merely air cured, they just don't taste very good.
I have an online friend who only grows two cigar leaf plants and uses a styrofoam cooler with a heat lamp to cure and color cure his cigar leafs.
There are also guys who convert old refrigerators, but really just a $10 insulated panel can be cut up to make a simple cube, and then just a crockpot will give you enough heat and moisture to make a burley more sociable to smoke.
But, really, burleys are way easier because you really don't need any of this, just hang it in your attic for a couple of years will make you a fairly good product.
Flu curing, color curing, brightleafs has a much greater learning curve... and harvesting the leafs one or two a day on your brightleafs gives you such a difficult task of running them all in just one kiln. Especially if you just have one kiln. The flu kiln really needs to be filled up, and set up to run the whole load on a rise and fall to give you control over your process. Brightleaf or Virginias really aren't the best varieties to start with.
There are some fairly sweet burleys. One brightleaf called cherry red also makes a sweet air cure.
As Sykes has pointed out in a past post, new tobacco research shows that there really isn't a difference between brightleafs and burleys. If you look at how the whole flu curing process started, it was the mistake of a barn burning down that the slaves noticed that the poor quality burley grown in very poor soil that was subjected to the heat of the barn fire actually had a sweeter flavor. This was like around the 1860's.
But, when the brightleafs are merely air cured, they just don't taste very good.
Yes sir, you have left behind miles of information. I am currently working my way through it.
I know... well that the flu curing is the biggest thing for BrightLeaf's flavor. I've ordered BB's BrightLeaf and if I'm talking about mixing Virginia with my Burley that's generally what I'm talking about.
There's a local guy who I've purchased leaf from who grew quite a bit some years back and has it in storage. He has a Virginia variety which I've tried, but he kilned it as he has never flu cured. I wouldn't call it harsh or bad, but it sure doesn't taste like Virginia (BrightLeaf). It's kind of like a Burley, actually.
I'm a lazy guy with plebeian tastes, I like Burley. So it's easy for me. I mostly smoke Burley with a bit of honey, sometimes I'll add BrightLeaf. I've got a few other varieties kicking around for variety, but I really prefer Burley. Just tobacco taste, thank you, please.
I've grown 3 crops so far, just 10-20 plants in each, and my first crop is being smoked now (Kelly Burley and Havana).
My last 2 crops were mostly Yellow Twist Bud, which I like a lot. It's a Burley strain which is quick to be smokeable. It's good in a year or less, whereas Kelly Burley is smokeable in year and good in two.
Most of the true aficionados that I know of, don't just limit themselves to Virginias. There are some damn fine burleys out there. Me? I just love tasting regardless.
I think that the single-most falsehood circulating right now in the pipe social media word is that burleys don't age well. I have found this to be absolute nonsense.
I think that the single-most falsehood circulating right now in the pipe social media word is that burleys don't age well. I have found this to be absolute nonsense.
Ive got a pretty good seedbank of various types, Im gonna try and grow some as well, just a handful of plants for S's and G's
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