Pipe Stems

[cosmicfolklore]

Wait, the OP didn't mention those people either. So, whose "working in" names? Ha ha! Oh yeh, third post down, my bad.

 

[jefff]

I would not put Nording and Tinsky in the same class, but that could be my mistake.
Tinsky is up front with his use of stems but he will make one from vulcanite if you ask. I have and am couldn't be happier with the result.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

No, even Timsky's premades are damn fine stems. They feel as good as my Beckers, and I'm a clencher.

 

[georged]

But, you are also wrong on pricing and quantity. Getting parts made, especially in plastics, is cheap as hell. Look in the back of any Crafts in America magazine. And, on e you pit yourself out there in the field, the Chinese and Indian manufacturors will start pounding at your door with all sorts of deals.

Because of the way they're used and shaped, only a handful of materials have been found suitable for use as pipe stems. Vulcanite, acrylic, and (quite recently) something called "Juma".
Vulcanite is a factory-sized project to make that requires a massive investment. At the present time there are only four companies left on the planet who produce it commercially.
Acrylic is easy to cast in principle, but quite difficult to produce with targeted properties, and consistency/quality control is always a problem.
Juma is proprietary, so is off the table.
China and India wouldn't even talk to you about vulcanite unless you had many millions to invest in a production facility, because they don't make it.
China and India would love to sell you pallets of plastic stems that look more-or-less OK in a box, but would not have the necessary properties to WORK well as stems. (Many have tried, all have died)
Your notions and the reasoning with which you connect them are nothing if not entertaining, Cosmic. :D

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Heck, I dodn't realize they put themselves in classes anyways, ha ha. We need a list for this stuff, especially those guys I've never heard of.

 

[sablebrush52]

Ha ha, I've never heard of any of them people. So Nording and Tinsky are in a lower class?

I certainly wouldn't put them in a lower class, but they're not small batch producers pricing entry level at 4 figures either. Gracik has the rep as one of the top carvers world wide, and his pipes sell for very respectable prices.
Tinsky, and certainly Nording, generally service a different part of the market.
So if the OP is referring to molded pre-fab stems being attached to pipes priced well above $1000, we're not referring to Tinsky or Nording.

 

[jefff]

Agreed.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

I gotcha, the OP is just wrong about those guys, but other artisan pipemakers do use the designed premade stems. And, when George says "no one" he really meams those types of guys. No problem understand there, ha ha. [/irony] ::

 

[sablebrush52]

I'd like to know which "ultra high end market" names are using pre-fab stems, if any. I've seen some of Gracik's pipes being shaped and the stems were being shaped from rod stock as well.
Pipes being sold for $150 or less would have to be using machined parts or there would be little to no profit in making them. A well crafted stem can be as much work, or more, than shaping the bowl.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Yeh, If I'm paying $400+, I'd be pissed to get a pre made stem as well. That makes sence.

Sorry, I didn't realize we were talking about Becker level pipemakers. I'll have to look these guys up. What country are they from?

 

[sablebrush52]

I'll have to look these guys up. What country are they from?

Shekita is Ukrainian. Gracik - J Alan - is American.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Thanks Sable!

 

[rsilverman7]

Dear friends,
Let me say that I am afraid that my initial post went in directions that went beyond what If anticipated. I apologize for any hurt feelings and inaccuracies.

 

[johnnyiii]

Pipes being sold for $150 or less would have to be using machined parts or there would be little to no profit in making them. A well crafted stem can be as much work, or more, than shaping the bowl.

AMEN
For two cents I have two chacoms with saddlebit stems. That's as factory built as you can get. Both Stems are very similar but yet different. Especially when you look at the bit. I have 2 Peterson XL90s. Maybe the stems are premade maybe there not. Out of Ignorance I know they are at least machine made. Would not be surprised if they were premade for such a used line. But again subtle differences do exist. Either way I don't care. They are wonderful.
I can make a pretty nice bowl. Its the stems where the truest art comes from. ITS HARD. I doubt a REAL craftsman would allow that on their pipe. Especially J-Allen!
My guess after reading all this is that ease of familiarity making a stem shape the Artesian crafter likes and also style of design in crafters head is being confused with something else.
I also add for ANY pipe. If you like it, get it, and EVERY pipe has a flaw or something about it you whish was a little different.

 

[bigvan]

I've read and re-read the original post and I'm not entirely sure of the point. Rsilverman7, if you've spent $400+ on an "artisan" pipe with a premade stem and a pre-drilled block, please do us all a favor and name names. And how, exactly, can you tell that a pipe was made from a pre-drilled block? And the claim that Jeff Gracie or Constantin Shekita use prefabricated ANYTHING requires proof.
Cosmic, which carvers have claimed that they use precut stems?

 

[cigrmaster]

rsilverman,

I wish I were as great a connoisseur as you are, cigrmaster. Unfortunately my expectations regarding pipe stems are not as particular as yours, and I clearly I don't mean that as a criticism.

I didn't take your post as criticism. I was never a connoisseur of stems until my first Rad Davis pipe. I had owned a number of Formers, Rainer Barbi's, Balleby's, Matzhold's in the early 2000's and not a one of their stems matched a Rad so price doesn't always get you the best stems. Back then the buttons on said pipes above that I owned were not as pronounced as pipes today and therefore not as comfortable. I also know some didn't smooth out the inside of their stems so there was no turbulence which leads to a wet smoker.
bigvan, there may be some lower end alleged artisans using pre cut stems. Of the ones I own, none are using them.

 

[bigvan]

Jeff Gracik and his brother Jeremy do have a line called "Allan Brothers", that are machine made stummels and stems, but are hand drilled and finished. They are also priced accordingly and they don't claim to be "hand made". This is similar to Trever Talbot's "Ligne Bretagne" line and Wayne Teipen's "Heritage" line; partially machine made, partially hand finished but priced accordingly. I think these are all GREAT ways to step up beyond the average machine-made pipe.
But I don't think that's what this whole thing is about.
So what is this whole thing about?

 

[jefff]

Cheap stems on expensive pipes........maybe?

 

[rsilverman7]

Folks--What I tried to say last night was that my main message to viewers was that they look at pipes on Smokingpipes.com and make their own judgments about what they see. I noted the first two pipe makers on the website, not to accuse them of anything, but to suggest that viewers simply make their own decision. Obviously this spun out of control for which I am very apologetic. I just want to forget this whole thing right now and crawl into a hole.
Please let us drop this.

 

[sablebrush52]

Looking back at the original post it seems to say that once upon a time there were two basic types of stems, military and those shaped flush to the shank. Now there are stems fitted onto high priced pipes that are neither. The OP goes on to suggest that these stems are "pre-made" because they are neither flush shaped or military mount. They're just attached to the shank.
What some of us responded to were assumptions that we know to be false. While prefabricated stems are made for freehands, not all push in stems are prefabricated. A flush mount or military mount might not work well from an aesthetic sense with a freehand. A quality minded pipe maker knows that the last inch of the pipe matters as much as anything else, so doing a schlock job with the stem is not a option. Buyers are fussy about the bit, slot, and button.
Also, not all flush mount and/or military mount stems are handmade. Lots of Pre-molded stems there. Check the price lists at Walker.
The lesson here is to be careful with assumptions. Judge not a book by its cover.