Pipe Smoking Politics

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monty55

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Apr 16, 2014
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Ahh. Ok I think I realize what the issue here with respect to me being lost, your talking about in depth subjects like Dunhill rumors and the Becker pipes thing. I don't know a damn think about either subject so I don't pretend to, but I think my last answer is still valid. In any social setting where there is group of people talking about a subject, some will know of what they say, some will guess using other peoples words to validate their thoughts, and some small fraction will flat out make shit up to sound important. That's just today's society my friend... in any setting! So if your asking why pipe smokers do this because you thought they were above all this? I'm sorry to disappoint my friend, but it is simply a cross section of society and that means your going to get the good with the bad.. period.

 

cosmicfolklore

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Aug 9, 2013
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Oh, and a little defensive posturing. Keep in mind that my thread was called "what if" and I tried my best to keep it all to conjecture to talk more specifically about the connection between the artist, the pipe, and the smoker. I don't think anyone was confused so far, but just in case someone else perusing this thread wasn't familiar... Anyways, back to the story...

 

daimyo

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May 15, 2014
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Frankly Cosmic, I think you and some of our other regulars represent the best example of how to discuss these stories that get floated about without putting too much stock in them or pretending that we are working with facts. The good humor and level heads about this place allow for discussion regarding such information without what I would call rumor mongering. I suppose it is just a facet of human nature but it honestly seems to me to be more prevalent when it comes to pipes and tobacco. Again, more of an observation than judgement. It may simply be that we are dealing with long held recipes or practices and they have little desire to inform their competitors of their trade secrets. I believe you are likely correct about Dunhill. I love bikes and cameras but find no equivalent in those hobbies. Cyclists might argue about who is using steroids and camera geeks may love or hate Leica but you won't find nearly as many rumors about the companies methods, manufacturing or what has changed under the new CEO. Discussion in those hobbies seems to stay fairly pertinent to the use, mechanics and quality of the product while blends, blenders and pipe makers seem to take on a mystique of their own given enough time.
Alval, there is probably more of this in other hobbies than I am aware of and as others pointed out, other areas of life. Also a good point about the internet in general.
Monty, there are certainly those who pretend to know definitely what they clearly could not and that is a bit silly. For myself though, some of the stories are indeed intriguing even if we never get a solid answer. I am content to say I do not know when that is the case... or at least I try.

 

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cosmicfolklore

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Aug 9, 2013
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You would think that with all the distributors, vendors and people they must have employed over the years that more of these would have been confirmed or denied at this point.
Absolutely not. Someone who has a direct liability with an issue, such as loss of contract or loss of sales riding on a rumor is not to be trusted. Now, why is it that we can't confirm anything? This is a magical hobby, and some of us love the mysteries of it. It is sometimes better to enjoy something without knowing the whole story. The whole story is probably a lot less fantastic than the rumors or mysteries.
I don't necessarily want Greg or Russ's final say on one of their blends. Take Haddos Delight for example. I don;t want to know all that goes into that mysteriously magical fantastic smoke. To me it was harvested from plants of magic beans and cured by fuzzy magical worms from outer space. It strikes my taste and cravings just perfect, unlike any tobacco blend that I can think of, and if I actually knew that it was some layman VaPer than he just added some regular old Cavendish to and sprayed with cheap brandy, I might not like it. Ha ha.
And, like with the MacBarons issue that Harris threw out there last year. Someone alerted MacBarons, and he used some flowery words that to tell us to deal with it, and everyone was so happy, ha ha. It blew my mind. I am happy that we can talk with the main guys in the industry. That is what makes this forum so much more different than any of the other ones. I hope they don't take this the wrong way, but even when they do speak, they don't necessarily clear up the speculation either. But, yeh, aint it exciting when they do talk with us?!!
What if Dunhill's president came on and said that they never farm out anything, all curing and work is done in house by the President himself. Would we believe it. Some might, and some not. But, wouldn't it be cool? ha ha!!
What if Per Jensen came on and said that his macBaron's blends don't bite at all if you'd just smoke it correctly, and that they always use the best. What then?
Nah, speculation and back slapping is better, IMO. But, that is just my opinion. At least that way we could have friendly debates.

 

cosmicfolklore

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Aug 9, 2013
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I hope that I am not hogging the thread. But in my field of jewelry, on the Facebook forums which are hidden from the public, people will bash gemstone cutters, rumors of fake stones by some countries, some governments allowing export of CZ's or seeded lab grown stones being sold as...whatever... Metal refineries that copper up their alloys. Other jewelers that are using CAD and lying to the public. It is a backbiting bunch on there. It actually has me weary of ever posting. I don;t want to get in that wrap and get the rumors pointed at me. But, it does happen in other areas.
But, yeh, there is always someone who says they know for certain. Yeh yeh yeh, that is all good. That person is a believer, but that doesn't mean crap to me. You might believe, but I have no faith in someone like that's belief.

 

daimyo

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May 15, 2014
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Cosmic, some fair points. As I have admitted I often enjoy these anecdotes despite not being able to place any stock in their veracity. Was Balkan Sobranie soaked in tea? Perhaps it is more fun not to know.

 

gloucesterman

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Jan 4, 2015
1,859
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Massachusetts
A slight deviation from the main theme.

Correct, this is a form of "social media". I should have been clearer. I don't do social media where that site is either known to or has any significant capacity for data mining. Sites like this have such a narrow focus there really isn't any real value to the information to be gleaned. But even then profile information can be accessed so be careful what you make known. I'm not paranoid, I'm in a position that sees the impacts all the time.

 

warren

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Sep 13, 2013
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Dunhill understands that a whale only gets harpooned when it surfaces to spout.
I find photo buffs to be every bit as rumor hungry as pipe smokers, maybe more so. As a working photog I only believe what manufacturers put out. And, that with a certain amount of skepticism. Pipe smokers have no corner on the rumor and speculation market. There's a whole industry devoted to speculating and rumor mongering about Apple.

 

gloucesterman

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Jan 4, 2015
1,859
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Massachusetts
I guess the question then is "what's so intriguing about rumors and speculation? If there wasn't something about it they would never sell another copy of National Enquirer.

 

daimyo

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May 15, 2014
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Concerning Warren and Cosmic's insight into the jewelry and photography worlds. I suppose it may be that I stayed near the surface in my other hobbies and simply never noticed that side of things. After all, until last year I had no idea Dunhill was the source of so much back and forth. I knew they had supporters and detractors but not that every week the subject is bubbling up somewhere. When I went to photography related sites I was simply there for stats or advice and didn't stick around long enough to see the underlying discourse. I guess if you put enough of any type enthusiast in a space for long enough there will inevitably be a rumor and speculation outside what is certain. I was just thinking this morning that it is a bit odd that I see discussions about what Alfred Dunhill did or did not do when it really lends nothing to actually smoking a pipe, even if it is a Dunhill.
I guess the question then is "what's so intriguing about rumors and speculation? If there wasn't something about it they would never sell another copy of National Enquirer.
Well, I can't argue there. The human mind is more than happy to fill in the blanks, whether it knows what properly belongs in those blanks or not.

 

cosmicfolklore

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Besides, faith is a strong force. Even if someone broke some cover story with pictures of Savinelli stamps being ground off stumels and Dunhill dots drilled into the stems, there would always be those who question it.
Take the story Kevin did about Dunhill Navy De Lux Rolls and Escudo being the exact same blends, tobaccos, same factory, assembly line, etc... He could have had pictures of recipes, how every other tin was labeled one then the other, and people would still swear they were different. And, maybe they are. I've only had one tin of the Dunhill Escudo (ha ha). Even Kevin gave a slight wink wink in his article, ...maybe room for doubt? But, even someone with a finger on the pulse of the industry couldn't sway the loyal fan. Even if they are paying up to five more dollars per tin. Maybe the higher price makes it more... faith-worthy.
What would it take? If Dunhill did admitsomething, would there still be people who didn't trust the source?
Maybe our hobby is a lot like religion in a way. If the Pope stood out on the Vatican window with the bones of Christ, would any of the churches close? lose membership? Probably not.
Faith is strong stuff. But, still we love the debate, the camaraderie. It makes enjoying something so much more special when there is a touch of magic involved. Right?

 

daimyo

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May 15, 2014
1,460
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Cosmic, exceptional take on all points but particularly your closing. I think you are correct, people would believe or not believe regardless. I spent a little time last night thinking about why it struck me as different in regards to pipes and I think it comes down to two things. First is that most hobby businesses brag about their process or specs. Want to know the exact specs of a bike part or where it's made? The information isn't just available, it's hoisted upon you. While I can't say it's all perfectly accurate, most businesses selling hobby goods are fairly transparent these days. Heck, they will show you how they wrap their carbon-fiber even if you don't care. Even in the field of knife making many famous smiths will do picture tutorials so you can see their exact process. Now some pipe makers are like this, telling you what kind of briar they buy, how long they season it, let you watch them work, etc etc etc. But there remain some more mythical brands and products in this field and it doesn't seem likely to change. The second is the good natured way many share and seek this info, such as the discussion we had the other day. So while much of this is attributable to human nature and I hope I am not as naive as I may have come across, it does strike me as a bit unique in these ways. Thank you for indulging me.

 

johnnyreb

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Aug 21, 2014
1,786
4
I heard that Duck Commander is making the Reverse Calabash pipe for Werner Mummert.




All in jest for those taking things too seriously!

 

sparrowhawk

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Jul 24, 2013
2,924
173
[quote The Pete lovers are a political party that loves them cheap pieces of crap[/quote]

Hey hey hey, them's fightin' words!

 

cosmicfolklore

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Aug 9, 2013
21,466
11,090
Helena, Alabama
I can't make heads nor tales from the Reddit pages. It looks like a jumble of old school forums, and I can't find anything on there. What is the fascination with that crappy website?

 

okiescout

Preferred Member
Jan 27, 2013
1,530
1
This has all been very educational,as usual. In relationship to the original topic being discussed and the thread that inspired it.
I have learned a great deal about any number of pipe makers etc. How can that type of exchange be bad? Not to mention the entertainment factor. I would not trade this site for all the other social media sites that exist. I do not always follow every comment, but it is a hoot to be involved and be able to learn and grow. So many great guys who are sharing and helping to add to the piping experience.
I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, but it has been my experience that negative factors involving human interaction go with the "people thing". I have seen far more brotherhood and honest caring and sharing about others, from members here, than any other discussions on the internet. I have read reviews on many sites that ranged from down right disrespectful to nasty and foul. The mods keep everyone right side up without being disrespectful.
I do not think pipers are anymore a source of gossip than any other collection of human beings gathering for discussions. Just my 2 cents :puffy:

 
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