Nomenclature OCD - Is Dunhill so Collectible Because of all that Nomenclature?

[sablebrush52]

Dunhill is certainly the best known of the Great British makers. They put a lot of effort into marketing the brand. But so did other British pipe makers. Yet Dunhill took the lead early and kept it for many years.

Considering prices, Dunhill still commands much respect. And collectors fight with each other over estate Dunhill's. But how much of this is all that nomenclature, including the ability to date a specific pipe to a specific year of manufacture? How much does knowing when a pipe was made matter to you?

 

[Gus]

I must admit that Dunhill is without a doubt one of the most collectible brands (or the most collectible brand).

However I am not interested at all and I can't help you in this.

It is a brand that I neither own nor wish to own any pipes from it.

 

[jguss]

Great question. My two cents is that the ability to date a pipe has materially added to Dunhill's collectability in the last 20-30 years, but will observe that people were collecting their pipes decades earlier too. And then, as now, the allure of a very high end brand where presumably superior quality is offered for a superior price is enduring. There is always a market for the very best, both at time of manufacture and decades later; and people will always argue whether X is truly better and/or worth the price. Personally I believe that there is plenty of steak as well as sizzle in Dunhill pipes from the Golden Age (defined variously by any two collectors you'll meet), but here reasonable people can disagree. The fact that Alfred Dunhill was a brilliant marketer doesn't mean what he was selling was inferior, but since at the end of the day we're talking about a piece of wood with two holes in it the possibility for argument is endless.

 

[ashdigger]

For me YES, for others no.

My collection of Dunhills and everything else has meaning to me.

Some folks might look at my collection and think I’m an idiot. Some might think I’m a hoarder. But I’m just an idiot pipe collector that really enjoys pipes.

The ability to date pipes is a big deal to me. A lot of pipes have date ranges from one year up to several decades.

Lastly, even though ‘birth year’ pipes are a modern thing, I get great satisfaction knowing my 1938 and 1943 Dunhills were manufactured, ostensibly, when my parents were born.

 

[lightmybriar]

Dating is one of the biggest draws to me. Knowing what was happening in the world at the time of the pipe’s creation is fascinating. Especially considering war era pipes and knowing that the shop in London was bombed.

Then there is the added fun of knowing if you have a first year of a specific finish, or the earliest known example of a specific shape...I love all of that stuff.

 

[cshubhra]

It is still marketing. Once the marketing has established a brand in the leaders position, it does not take a lot of effort to maintain the position. It becomes self fulfilling

• One of the most well known brands of luxury pipe and tobacco across the world is Dunhill and many new tobacco users when asked to identify the most iconic brand would identify a Dunhill
• The best kind of marketing for luxury products are the users - The fans who have acquired the marquee will show off and promote their ware actively. The ownership becomes aspirational
• Another extremely successful marketing which works are the naysayers. When the naysayers actively diss the brand, it creates a class distinction. The ones who can afford but on the fence will perceive (whether it’s was the intention or not) that they naysayers are doing it because they cannot afford. This improves desirability
• The high prices are also self-fulfilling in many ways. Humans often value an object based on what others are paying. Given a limited supply this increases desirability and price till it reaches equilibrium
• Humans tend to copy each other. This is an extension to the previous point, but if Dunhill is valued highly by some, others will start valuing it
• Perceptions stay on for a very long time. At one point they have been true, but even after being false they persist

So in other words, it is marketing, but it is deep rooted in psychology

 

[keith929]

I care less about a pipe's provenance than I do about it's smoking qualities.
As an owner of 8 Dunhill pipes I can honestly say that the quality of the smoke does not justify the price.
Other than the ability to pinpoint the year of manufacture I find no incentive to purchase another Dunhill unless the shape speaks to me.
Don't get me wrong I love my Dunhills and do not see myself trading them away.
It's just that the price does not reflect the quality of my smoking experience.
Maybe It's just me but my most sublime smoking experience has come from a Peterson.
I am also the owner of several artesian pipes but to my taste my Petes put them to shame.
IMHO.

 

[peregrinus]

How much does knowing when a pipe was made matter to you?

It matters, but not as much as it once did in my younger days.
Still, older pipes, fountain pen, watches, buildings, people etc. all have history and stories to tell and I find that is an added dimension.

Back to pipes, now days the engineering (eg smoking characteristics), fit/finish and style matter more than the date of manufacture.

 

[Sweet Home Alabama]

Dating would mean nothing to me if the shape was not what I prefer .

 

[jguss]

So in other words, it is marketing, but it is deep rooted in psychology

Marketing as always deeply rooted in psychology, at least if it's going to be effective

 

[Fiddlepiper]

I enjoy being able to date older pipes I own. The ability to think about and try to comprehend what was going on in the world when these pipes were made gives me a big kick. But as someone who makes their living in the furthering of a tradition I can understand why this is.

I only own one Dunhill which I love and didn’t pay stupid money for (lucky I know). But rather than the brand being coveted it’s the history that attracts me.

 

[bullet08]

Dunhill shape hasn't really attracted me to their pipes. It would be interesting to pin point the date, but the pipe has to call me out. I have seen great looking Dunhill pipes in this forum, just not something I would smoke.

 

[greeneyes]

Two words: Unger and Custombilt.

 

[cigrmaster]

I own only one Dunhill. It is a 1966 LB Billiard. The dating thing is cool. I would buy a birth year but so far no luck in the shape and quality. I love my 1966 LB Billiard because for me it is the classic Billiard which is one of my favorite shapes. One day if a 1956, my sister, or a 1957 me or a 1933 my mom, came around I might go for it. It would have to be in pristine condition and the right price.

 

[kcghost]

I am not terribly fond of Dunhill pipes but must confess to an inordinate desire to own one honoring my birth year provided it is of a bent shape. Considering my birth year was '47 it seems providential that between pricing and availability have kept a Dunhill from being in my collection.

 

[peregrinus]

Birth year Dunhill story.
I once actively collected Dunhills, for 20 years, and had quite a few pass through my hands. I still have several dozen but actively smoke only 3 in my rotation. For all that time I was buying and selling I kept an eye out for a nice birth year pipe, but never found one that clicked.
So, a few months ago I pull out of storage an older Dunhill LBS Root billiard I got in a lot of several Dunhill's and Barling's in the late 90’s. It’s a nice pipe so I load it up with flake and sit on my porch to enjoy a quiet smoke. As I am contemplating the world and all, I casually take a good look at the stamps and... it’s my birth year!
Shit, how long have I had this pipe and why didn’t I ever notice it my birth year?
Turns out having a birth pipe didn’t really matter as much as I imagined it might. As far as holy grails go it was a bit of non-event for me personally. I may keep it but, may not, I haven’t decided.
??‍

 

[Gus]

I have a lot of respect for any collector, and I like to see their collections, that they move and buy with their own criteria, are faithful to their tastes, etc.

I do not buy anything from Dunhill, mostly because they do not appeal to me, nor do I like the pipes manufactured in series and with predefined shapes that are mass-produced for sale.

I certainly prefer the pipe of a craftsman, with a free interpretation and that I know that it has been manufactured by him.

And even at the risk of being crucified, I will explain why I don't like these pipes, nor Petersonn, Savinelli and so many other commercial brands.

Peterson openly acknowledges that he has his pipes made in different factories by different craftsmen, etc. When you buy a Peterson, you assume you don't know who made it.

The same thing happens to me with Dunhill, not knowing who made the pipe I don't like, I know a man in Mallorca who has all the Dunhill shapes in his house, only the "white dot on the mouthpiece" is missing, from the early 50's to mid 60's he had a carpentry with 4 employees who made pipes for Dunhill daily with briar collected in Mallorca and Catalonia, I know another one in Catalonia who did it for years too, another two in Italy who also did it their grandparents and father. This is what I don't like, not knowing the origin of a pipe does not attract me at all to add it to my collection. This is what I don't like, not knowing the origin of a pipe does not attract me at all to add it to my collection. I don't find it attractive to add a dot and sell it under a brand name.

It's like having Renault make me a car and then put the Mercedes logo on it, that's just my opinion.

Even with all this, I have to recognize the great marketing, demand and collecting of these pipes.

And I don't give any importance to dates either, I don't pay attention to that, old pipes have a special charm, but I'm not a collector of them, I prefer to focus on magnificent craftsmen of today and enjoy their great creativity.

An interpretation of a bulldog shape by Nate King or Paolo Becker, for example, for me, will always be more attractive than a classic Bulldog shape.

 

[STP]

Some of their packaging is a selling point as well…

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Smokingpipes.eu is your one stop shop for English Estates Dunhill Christmas Pipe 2019 Shell Briar (165/300) (Unsmoked) Tobacco Pipes and all your tobacco smoking needs. From new and used tobacco pipes to tobacco pipe accessories, we have everything you need.

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[shanez]

The short answer is yes.

Personally, I like knowing something about my pipes if possible. In terms of collecting I think nomenclature or markings of some sort is almost a must. Would anyone spend the money that gets spent on some pipes if they didn't have the carver's ID markings stamped on the pipe?

I passed on a meer because I couldn't find the artist's markings although it certainly did look like his work. On the other hand, I picked up a Larsen because I did like the way it looked but the listing of "possible Teddy Knudsen" didn't hurt either and it certainly looks like he could b the caver of it. (I got it for about 1/3 of what a confirmed T.K. Larsen sells for.)

Granted, Dunhill's nomenclature isn't quite the same as a carver's ID markings but the point is without either the pipes wouldn't be as collectible (at least to me) and probably wouldn't bring the prices they do either.

 

[dmcmtk]

I think part of the collectability, as others have pointed out, was Dunhill establishing themselves as an overall luxury brand. The dating definitely plays a part, as a pipe from a certain date fixes it at a certain time in history. I'm not a Dunhill "collector", I've just been lucky enough to find some nice pipes (6~7) at good prices. Would I pay the ask for a new, current production pipe? No.