Mason Jars - How Tight Do You Tighten The Ring?

[Ryszard]

Hello everyone, just a quick question about mason jars.

I heard that when using mason jars for canning purposes (food), one shouldn't over-tighten the ring but just fingertip-tighten it in order to let air escape during the whole canning process. (which most of us don't do for tobacco)

I was wondering if this also applies for tobacco storage purposes or if it's better to screw the ring on tight and fully compress the lid/seal onto the jar? So far I always screwed the ring on pretty tight, to the point where it would be hard/impossible to move it any further, thinking this would guarantee a better seal. My logic was that if I'm not going through the canning procedure, no air will need to escape anyway...

In any case, does it hurt to screw the ring on real tight or does it not matter all that much how tight the ring is on?

Thanks in advance!

 

[cosmicfolklore]

one shouldn't over-tighten the ring but just fingertip-tighten it in order to let air escape during the whole canning process.

Well, I don't think that is 100% the reason, because the rings no matter how tight you crank them are just not designed to tighten up the lid any further than you'd get from just going as far as "finger tight". Any tighter, and you're just making the jar harder to open, nothing more. Take a close look at the engineering of the lid and ring.

Feel free to crank it down, but the lids aren't actually getting pressed any tighter by doing so.

Air will escape during the canning process, regardless. I've pulled whole green beans out of the jar with too much pressure in a pressure cooker, with the lids and rings still intact.

 

[Sonorisis]

Not sure what the "right" answer is, but I don't use gorilla force to tighten jars. Doing so just crushes the seal, and it doesn't seem that would be helpful.

 

[spartacus]

I give mine a tight twist. Not tight enough to make it hard to get off but tight enough where there is a good seal.

 

[Frozenoak]

For canning purposes, it's important not to have a seal as you pressure cook the jar with lid. We don't even use the threaded ring, just put the lid on top and pressure cook. This is because the jar could explode. Once the canning process is complete, it doesn't matter how tight you make the ring, even with the ring off, and the jar on it's side, you shouldn't find any leaks because you've created a vacuum seal.

For tobacco cellaring, you don't sterilize by heating so you won't create a vacuum seal. In this case one should use the ring. I believe the tighter the better, at least until you start to deform things, but with a new lid, even a mild amount of pressure should be enough to create a pressure seal. Unless you are taking them from Denver to L.A. or vise versa.

As an aside, when canning jellies, we didn't even use a lid. Just poured melted wax on top of the jelly. Probably not recommended for tobacco.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

If you'll read up on some "Best Practices" in canning, you'll see everywhere that the lid never tightens down on the jar by the ring. It merely holds the lid in place. It is NEVER any tighter. Take a careful look at the engineering on them. It is impossible to crush the seal, nor does it really do much of anything at all. It just makes it harder to remove.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

so you won't create a vacuum seal. In this case one should use the ring.

I have stacks and stack of thousands of jars of tobacco where the lids have sealed without any heat and I have removed the rings. The tobacco creates it's own seal by using up the oxygen in the first stages of aging. The room stays 70F year round.

Removing the ring is a "best practice" as well, because it will better show you when your jar never sealed. If the jar is not sealed, it will be way more obvious that the seal needs to be checked on the lid and replaced. But, to keep the ring in place, you'll never know, and to have faith that the ring alone is sealing the jar is just misunderstanding what is going on with how jars work.

 

[Ryszard]

Thanks a lot everyone for your input!

I have stacks and stack of thousands of jars of tobacco where the lids have sealed without any heat and I have removed the rings. The tobacco creates it's own seal by using up the oxygen in the first stages of aging. The room stays 70F year round.

Removing the ring is a "best practice" as well, because it will better show you when your jar never sealed. If the jar is not sealed, it will be way more obvious that the seal needs to be checked on the lid and replaced. But, to keep the ring in place, you'll never know, and to have faith that the ring alone is sealing the jar is just misunderstanding what is going on with how jars work.

That would mean that in order for the jars to be sealed they need to have "popped" and have that center part of the lid sucked down/inverted, right? Because in other threads I have read that the "popping" is merely a phenomenon of pressure and jars which didn't pop/where the lid is "normal" can also have a functional seal. What's your stance on this? Thanks again for your time!

 

[Frozenoak]

I have stacks and stack of thousands of jars of tobacco where the lids have sealed without any heat and I have removed the rings. The tobacco creates it's own seal by using up the oxygen in the first stages of aging. The room stays 70F year round.

Removing the ring is a "best practice" as well, because it will better show you when your jar never sealed. If the jar is not sealed, it will be way more obvious that the seal needs to be checked on the lid and replaced. But, to keep the ring in place, you'll never know, and to have faith that the ring alone is sealing the jar is just misunderstanding what is going on with how jars work.

Fair statement. I haven't been cellaring long enough to know. I have noticed that the jars I have cracked into require some force to remove the lid. My main concern is 5 to 10 years from now when pressure starts to build as it does in tins.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

pressure starts to build as it does in tins.

I have never seen pressure build up in the jars. I know what you are talking about... those inflated GLP tins. Honestly, I don't know exactly why his tins do that. But, I have never seen it happen in a jar. And, why does it not happen in McClelland blends, or any of the other tins. I have sen it in a few C&D tins though. I am not sure what is going on in those.

When Greg first released Virginia Cream, my tins were freshly tinned and some ballooned up like immediately after release; some didn't. It's like some get extra air injected into them. I have no idea.

 

[Frozenoak]

I have a Rattray's, Hal O' the Wynd 100g tin that I'm afraid to pick up.

 

[rmpeeps]

I have never seen pressure build up in the jars. I know what you are talking about... those inflated GLP tins. Honestly, I don't know exactly why his tins do that. But, I have never seen it happen in a jar. And, why does it not happen in McClelland blends, or any of the other tins. I have sen it in a few C&D tins though. I am not sure what is going on in those.

When Greg first released Virginia Cream, my tins were freshly tinned and some ballooned up like immediately after release; some didn't. It's like some get extra air injected into them. I have no idea.

Tins bulge because internal pressure causes them to. Plain and simple. Just what biologic mechanism causes the bulge (or not) is not real clear to me, but they can and do bulge.
I’ve had tins from C&D, McClelland, Rattray, and old Robert McConnell exhibit bulges at differing points in time.
Ive also released the ring on old jars and had the lid blow off and tobacco fly out.
When I jar tobacco for long term I leave a little air space, give them about 15 seconds in the microwave, set the lids with a pretty firm turn on the ring. Usually in about 15-20 minutes the lid will ping down and should stay that way for decades if left alone.
For day to day lid closure I just give the ring a good snugging, and don’t worry about things too much.

 

[hoosierpipeguy]

I just tighten the kids firmly. I agree with Cosmic's thoughts on this.

 

[BROBS]

the lids will seal themselves tighter over time.. the same way a tin will "suck in".

 

[cosmicfolklore]

the same way a tin will "suck in".

Have you seen this happen? seriously curious

 

[BROBS]

Have you seen this happen? seriously curious

yes.. Some of my tins either bowed in more after cellaring for a year or two, and some that looked "flat" to begin with did bow in. I've never had one expand.

And the jars, yes I have seen the lids suck down after time. My bale top jars after a year I have to use my thumb to pop them open because they are sucked down so hard.

I also cellar in an actual cellar.

 

[mso489]

I'm no mechanic, but the concept of the torque wrench has always fascinated me, the wrench I associate with auto mechanics that has a gauge that allows you to tighten a bolt only to a specific point, so you don't strip threads or cause other damage. The specifications are set by the engineers who designed the engine or other equipment on which the wrench is being used, and the specs are based on their knowledge of the materials involved. My best guess, without a wrench to tell me, is that a jar lid should be more than just finger tightened, but hand tightened only to a point. I'd want to give it a little tug to open it, but it shouldn't require loosening it by hitting it with a cooking spoon the way you do with a jar of pickles sometimes.

 

[Ryszard]

Okay, now y'all have got me confused.

I've spent quite a lot of time reading through older topics, jarring manuals and even in this topic there seems to be some controversy regarding whether the jars should "pop" (the lid's center button sucking down) in order to be "safe" for storage.

I seem to be able to break the general consensus down into two groups:

• A - Those who say a jar is only sealed once a vacuum has occurred either naturally or through prior heating of the jar. If the lid's button is not deflated, something's wrong.
  
  
• B - Those who say the deflating/inflating of the center button ("popping" up or down) doesn't matter at all and the tobacco inside is air-tight or safe from drying out regardless of the lid button's condition. The "popping" is just due to temperature/pressure changes and can be ignored. No further action is required and the tobacco is "safe".

Now, which one is the right one? And if you're a Group A follower, how much time should I give my jars to seal naturally? If you prefer putting them into warm water/microwave - do you do that with the tobacco inside and lid on OR just the actual glass with nothing else? What would you do if the lid does pop up at some point due to temperature change etc..?

Thanks a lot and sorry if I've got all of this the wrong way around. ;-)

 

[cosmicfolklore]

@BROBS Yeh, I expect the jars to form a vacuum. It only makes sense that they would. But, I don';t understand why in all of the tins in my cellar, many, many, the only ones to expand were two blends by C&D and GLPs stuff. My McClellands actually make a swish sound which air rushing in from the vacuum.

I just hadn't seen the flat tins actually cave in from the vacuum.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Those who say the deflating/inflating of the center button ("popping" up or down) doesn't matter at all and the tobacco inside is air-tight or safe from drying out regardless of the lid button's condition.

Yes, the pinging sound that jars make as ambient air pressure goes up and down is normal. The button in the middle of the jar lid will never be expanded up from increased air pressure, because jars were not designed to hold pressure in. Automatically, the air would be released. This is all in how they were engineered to make home canning of foods possible. If air were to even build up, the jar would just lose its seal until a vacuum was formed again, or until someone checked by taking the ring off.