Los Angeles B&Ms: A Sad State of Affairs

[Servant King]

I was going to put this in the "General Discussions" section, but upon second guessing myself, I felt it more appropriate here, as it pertains directly to the Machiavellian Mephistophelean tactics of the LA area policymakers. So, a note to mods/admins: if this is in the wrong place and needs to be elsewhere, my apologies. I just wish to share an experience I had yesterday.

I live an hour north of LA. My wife and I were invited by a friend in Orange County to come over for some good old fashioned conversation and human contact. He smokes cigars, and he certainly enjoyed the aroma of the bowl of CAO Moontrance I fired up on the patio. On our way back, I decided to pop in to the last B&M tobacconist in the Los Angeles area, Tobacco Trader. I was hoping to find a deal or two, and pick up a tin of MacBaren Vanilla Roll Cake, which I have had the urge to try. Turns out, due to a recent flavored tobacco ban, not only can they not carry any tobacco having a title hinting at the presence of a flavor, but they have had to completely change the names of their house blends, making them sound more innocuous in order to circumvent this latest round of nonsense! I don't know, maybe I'm just out of the loop out here in the boondocks, but this one really bothered me. Yes, I know what you're probably thinking, that I shouldn't be the least bit surprised by anything the anti-tobacco cretins devise, but I feel especially bummed out knowing that, with each restrictive measure, LA moves closer to literally having zero B&Ms within its bloated city limits.

I chatted with the proprietor for as long as I could reasonably survive the oxygen deprivation. His mask rendered a third of his words to gibberish, but from what I could discern, they aren't in a good way. Which makes sense, seeing as they have to be on their toes all the time, reacting to each successive tobacco attack as best as they can in order than they might stay afloat just a bit longer. In the past five years, Tinderbox in Santa Monica and Kramer's in Bev. Hills have both thrown in the towel. It's as though the local attacks on tobacco now land squarely on this storekeeper's shoulders, with no way to diffuse them, and the vibe I got did seem to reflect an understanding of this. I honestly felt a little like watching a wildebeest getting dragged underwater by a Nile crocodile. The juxtaposition of the afternoon smoke with my friend compared with the fatalistic sentiment hanging in the air within this B&M hanging on for dear life...it's something I won't soon forget.

So, no MacB VRC for me, but I did snag:
1) Peterson University Flake
2) Orlik Golden Sliced
3) Ashton Gold Rush

I know everyone says it, and I know it's cliche, but I can't help it. Cellar deep, my fellow SoCal pipe smokers. And get to it, post haste!

 

[Chasing Embers]

Sign of the times. In the coming decade there will likely be no B&Ms left.

 

[fireground_piper]

Sign of the times. In the coming decade there will likely be no B&Ms left.

Or just be different. As more states enact no mail order, it strengthens a physical need in some form either current or yet to be defined.

I'd be shocked if any of the larger online sellers haven't at least started thinking about making inroads to existing B&M locations. Even more so if you are an online retailer and a distributor.

Face to face sales are all allowed. Shipping from B2B is allowed across state lines. If online businesses aren't already looking at agreements to local B&M, then it's really on them if the whole thing fails. If you fail to think outside the current status quo of your business/industry, it is only your fault you failed.

Unless I'm mistaken, an online retailer can send an order to a local B&M who can then sell it face to face to a customer. Prices would go up to facilitate the extra cuts and you need to pay your taxes, but pretty sure legally there's nothing blocking that.

 

[Chasing Embers]

pretty sure legally there's nothing blocking that.

Yet

 

[fireground_piper]

Municipalities would enjoy their newly found excise tax collections they currently miss out on.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Municipalities would enjoy their newly found excise tax collections they currently miss out on.

Plenty of other smokables reaching legality that could serve as replacement. August 8th may just be the beginning of many bad things to come.

 

[sablebrush52]

I was going to put this in the "General Discussions" section, but upon second guessing myself, I felt it more appropriate here, as it pertains directly to the Machiavellian Mephistophelean tactics of the LA area policymakers. So, a note to mods/admins: if this is in the wrong place and needs to be elsewhere, my apologies. I just wish to share an experience I had yesterday.

I live an hour north of LA. My wife and I were invited by a friend in Orange County to come over for some good old fashioned conversation and human contact. He smokes cigars, and he certainly enjoyed the aroma of the bowl of CAO Moontrance I fired up on the patio. On our way back, I decided to pop in to the last B&M tobacconist in the Los Angeles area, Tobacco Trader. I was hoping to find a deal or two, and pick up a tin of MacBaren Vanilla Roll Cake, which I have had the urge to try. Turns out, due to a recent flavored tobacco ban, not only can they not carry any tobacco having a title hinting at the presence of a flavor, but they have had to completely change the names of their house blends, making them sound more innocuous in order to circumvent this latest round of nonsense! I don't know, maybe I'm just out of the loop out here in the boondocks, but this one really bothered me. Yes, I know what you're probably thinking, that I shouldn't be the least bit surprised by anything the anti-tobacco cretins devise, but I feel especially bummed out knowing that, with each restrictive measure, LA moves closer to literally having zero B&Ms within its bloated city limits.

I chatted with the proprietor for as long as I could reasonably survive the oxygen deprivation. His mask rendered a third of his words to gibberish, but from what I could discern, they aren't in a good way. Which makes sense, seeing as they have to be on their toes all the time, reacting to each successive tobacco attack as best as they can in order than they might stay afloat just a bit longer. In the past five years, Tinderbox in Santa Monica and Kramer's in Bev. Hills have both thrown in the towel. It's as though the local attacks on tobacco now land squarely on this storekeeper's shoulders, with no way to diffuse them, and the vibe I got did seem to reflect an understanding of this. I honestly felt a little like watching a wildebeest getting dragged underwater by a Nile crocodile. The juxtaposition of the afternoon smoke with my friend compared with the fatalistic sentiment hanging in the air within this B&M hanging on for dear life...it's something I won't soon forget.

So, no MacB VRC for me, but I did snag:
1) Peterson University Flake
2) Orlik Golden Sliced
3) Ashton Gold Rush

I know everyone says it, and I know it's cliche, but I can't help it. Cellar deep, my fellow SoCal pipe smokers. And get to it, post haste!

The California ban on flavored tobaccos excluded pipe tobacco. I read the statute. So, unless it's an LA County thing they should have been able to sell much of what they had been selling.
Next time you're in Orange County, call ahead to the Tobacco Barn to see if they're carrying anything you're looking for.
The Original Tinderbox in Santa Monica was done in by the founder's niece selling off the property after he passed. Otherwise they might still be there.
LA is a pipe tobacco desert. Used to be quite different, but the trend has been going on for decades. You can find all the cigars you want. Pipe tobacco? Who smokes that crap?

 

[Servant King]

The California ban on flavored tobaccos excluded pipe tobacco. I read the statute. So, unless it's an LA County thing they should have been able to sell much of what they had been selling.
Next time you're in Orange County, call ahead to the Tobacco Barn to see if they're carrying anything you're looking for.
The Original Tinderbox in Santa Monica was done in by the founder's niece selling off the property after he passed. Otherwise they might still be there.
LA is a pipe tobacco desert. Used to be quite different, but the trend has been going on for decades. You can find all the cigars you want. Pipe tobacco? Who smokes that crap?

From what I could discern of his explanation, it had something to do with Culver City being a separate entity from "City of Los Angeles," much in the same way that Burbank is. CC policymakers apparently opted for stricter measures than LA proper; in other words, if TT were just a block further north, this would be a moot point (for the time being, of course). It's just a matter of time before the whole damn thing disintegrates into the annals of history.

Thanks for the recommendation; I will give TB a look-see. Meanwhile, I suppose I'll have to get my VRC from SP.com. Might as well use it before it gets the same treatment as all the rest, right?

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

I'd be shocked if any of the larger online sellers haven't at least started thinking about making inroads to existing B&M locations.

Scandinavian Tobacco Group has opened two brick and mortar outlets in Texas and two in Florida to go along with their existing stores in Pennsylvania. For those who don’t know, Scandinavian owns Cigars International, which owns Pipes and Cigars, among other etail fronts. Scandinavian is a public company. They put their quarterly and annual shareholder reports on line. Interesting reading

 

[fireground_piper]

Scandinavian Tobacco Group has opened two brick and mortar outlets in Texas and two in Florida to go along with their existing stores in Pennsylvania. For those who don’t know, Scandinavian owns Cigars International, which owns Pipes and Cigars, among other etail fronts. Scandinavian is a public company. They put their quarterly and annual shareholder reports on line. Interesting reading

It makes sense, and personally can see it as a way forward. It's the realm I'd be looking towards if it was my management responsibility. Even if you can't open your own stores, engaging local outlets that can allow you to develop a model of centralized warehouse to local PoS site seems like a logical path. I'll have to check that report out!

 

[Chasing Embers]

Scandinavian Tobacco Group has opened two brick and mortar outlets in Texas and two in Florida to go along with their existing stores in Pennsylvania. For those who don’t know, Scandinavian owns Cigars International, which owns Pipes and Cigars, among other etail fronts. Scandinavian is a public company. They put their quarterly and annual shareholder reports on line. Interesting reading

Consider that they closed the US Lane facility, that is very interesting.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

Consider that they closed the US Lane facility, that is very interesting.

Lane was a factory, never a retail outlet.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Lane was a factory, never a retail outlet.

That's why I said facility.

 

[greeneyes]

Costa Mesa Tinder Box usually has (had?) some good tobaccos. Might be worth a try.

 

[americaman]

Tobacco Trader is cool, but Tinder Box South Coast Plaza is much more dedicated to pipes. The guys working there smoke pipes while working...inside a mall. Not quite as many blends, but it’s a better store overall. Head down there. Tobacco Barn OC is also great, but they don’t carry the rare stuff like Tinder Box South Coast Plaza does. However, Tobacco Barn has a smoking lounge.

If you head down to San Diego make sure to hit up Racine and Laramie. They basically have a pipe museum inside.

Each B&M offers something unique.

 

[pianopuffer]

We just moved out to OC from the East coast, so I’m excited to check these out while they are still around.

 

[dochowl]

This is specific to Culver City, which sucks for Tobacco Trader. Sounds like this went into effect for B&Ms in late December 2020. Pulled this off the CulverCity.org website:

Tobacco is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States. Each year, tobacco usage causes the death of 40,000 Californians, and nearly half a million individuals in the U.S. Recent estimates suggest that 441,000 Californians under 18 today will die from a tobacco-related disease. To help address this issue, on October 28, 2019, Culver City’s City Council adopted an ordinance that bans the sale of flavored tobacco products, including menthol(PDF, 6MB). In most cases, tobacco retailers (including grocery and convenience stores, gas stations, etc.) were given until May 25, 2020 before the ban took effect, in order to give them an opportunity to sell off their flavored tobacco product inventory. Retailers qualifying as a tobacco store have an additional six months to comply with the ban, and the hookah lounge located in Culver City is exempt from the ban.

 

[americaman]

This is specific to Culver City, which sucks for Tobacco Trader. Sounds like this went into effect for B&Ms in late December 2020. Pulled this off the CulverCity.org website:

Tobacco is the leading cause of preventable death in the United States. Each year, tobacco usage causes the death of 40,000 Californians, and nearly half a million individuals in the U.S. Recent estimates suggest that 441,000 Californians under 18 today will die from a tobacco-related disease. To help address this issue, on October 28, 2019, Culver City’s City Council adopted an ordinance that bans the sale of flavored tobacco products, including menthol(PDF, 6MB). In most cases, tobacco retailers (including grocery and convenience stores, gas stations, etc.) were given until May 25, 2020 before the ban took effect, in order to give them an opportunity to sell off their flavored tobacco product inventory. Retailers qualifying as a tobacco store have an additional six months to comply with the ban, and the hookah lounge located in Culver City is exempt from the ban.

The hookah lounge is exempt? Why?

This reminds me of the place Arnold Schwarzenegger used to go to smoke his stogies. They enacted some sort of ban or something, and his lounge was exempted. Does anyone remember what I’m talking about or am I getting the story wrong?

What area of OC @pianopuffer? There are some good cigar lounges if you’re into that. OC believes in freedom of choice, so they’re all open despite the virus.

 

[Servant King]

The hookah lounge is exempt? Why?

This reminds me of the place Arnold Schwarzenegger used to go to smoke his stogies. They enacted some sort of ban or something, and his lounge was exempted. Does anyone remember what I’m talking about or am I getting the story wrong?

What area of OC @pianopuffer? There are some good cigar lounges if you’re into that. OC believes in freedom of choice, so they’re all open despite the virus.

Yeah, I remember hearing something about that. Not too dissimilar from Emperor Newsom's sybaritic gourmanding incident at the most expensive restaurant in Northern CA, whilst wagging his booger-coated finger at anyone trying to salvage any semblance of a normal life anymore. Neither incident comes as a surprise, of course.

Thanks for the South Coast Plaza tip! I will keep that in mind next time I'm down past the Orange Curtain. Lately though, my priority is to unload some of the aromatics I have, as my tastes are going in more of a VA/burley direction. I actually don't need very much more for my cellar. It's more about rounding it out while I still can, because the writing's pretty much on the wall regarding our beloved leaf. I'm no Governator, after all... ?

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Sure, sure, sure, lets blame everything under the sun except the thing that is really killing every pipe tobacco B&M across the country... YOU! When you buy your pipes and tobaccos online, you might as well be throwing a brick through their windows. This is what is killing every B&M business in America. They way people shop is changing. I mean, we all like to go to B&Ms and look around. It's a very cool thing to do. But, then we all might buy one tin or a pack of pipe cleaners, and then go home and order $300 worth of tobacco from the very place where the B&Ms have to buy their stuff from at about the same prices. Jab that knife deep into their backs, and if you mention to the B&M owners that you can get your tobaccos cheaper online, you are twisting that knife deeper and more painfully.

On one hand, I love having B&Ms to visit, but if the big online vendors continue to put their wholesale buyers out of business, they had damned well better be ready to step up to the plate once they've driven their buyers out of business and take over when online sales are killed off. Otherwise, they are left with the goods, and we are left with no way to get them.

But, yeh yeh yeh, lets blame everything under the sun except ourselves.