Learn From History

[Edwin Weaver]

Almost 100 years ago marijuana and alcohol were legal then the people in power decided to outlaw alcohol. Immediately the criminal elements stepped in and started providing alcohol to the American public, since alcohol was produced everywhere in the world they had an ample supply. The government conceded and repealed the prohibition act.

Later they outlawed marijuana, though it had always been legal. Once again the criminal elements stepped in and supplied the need. Since the need was small (not a big consumer base), the criminal elements augmented their income by providing more and more and different drugs.

The government declared ‘war on drugs’. The government again lost and are still losing the war – they are even considering conceding and legalizing marijuana again.

If the people in power make the same mistake again, they will lose again. The criminal elements will again step in. Since, Tobacco is grown in most of the world the criminal elements will an ample supple.

Forgive me, but I for one will purchase “black market” pipe tobacco.

To paraphrase a slogan, “They will get my pipe when they pry it from my cold dead hand.”



history does repeat itself



do not let Tobacco be strike 3 for the people in power.

 

[warren]

do not let Tobacco be strike 3 for the people in power.

And you suggest resisting, how? It's not the people in power. It's your neighbors, friends and family who keep the pressure on the politicians or "the people in power."

 

[Edwin Weaver]

And you suggest resisting, how? It's not the people in power. It's your neighbors, friends and family who keep the pressure on the politicians or "the people in power."

warren,

I do not suggest resisting. I just said what happened before and is happening again. They have not learned from their mistakes. may GOD help them see their errors.

Edwin

 

[Chasing Embers]

What happened before was immediate. They've had decades of anti tobacco propaganda influencing multiple generations to a point where black market tobacco wouldn't be profitable to bootleggers. Alcohol gets people drunk, marijuana gets you high, tobacco is just a mild stimulant. Don't see any grand scale mob wars over it.

 

[BROBS]

I agree.... the general attitude towards tobacco is more negative than anything and as embers said nobody has ever crashed a car off tobacco unless they were smoking G&H ropes.

 

[Edwin Weaver]

What happened before was immediate. They've had decades of anti tobacco propaganda influencing multiple generations to a point where black market tobacco wouldn't be profitable to bootleggers. Alcohol gets people drunk, marijuana gets you high, tobacco is just a mild stimulant. Don't see any grand scale mob wars over it.

chasingmembers;

You are wrong not all was 'immediate'. Many criminal elements did not want to get involved in drug sales, at first. There were no mob wars for drug sales, at first. However, there was some profit. That is all criminal elements want to see, profits, same as companies.
The effects TOBACCO has on people has nothing to do with this.
This is about power hunger - control freaks wanting to control people in every way. my opinion!

Edwin

 

[Chasing Embers]

You are wrong not all was 'immediate'. Many criminal elements did not want to get involved in drug sales at first.

You misread the comment, the ban was immediate.

The effects TOBACCO has on people has nothing to do with this.

You're right, it's the lack of effect and the fashionable cessation programs and self help groups that will be the death nail for tobacco.

This is about power hunger - control freaks wanting to control people in every way. my opinion!

More likely pharmaceutical companies realizing they can make more money selling drugs that can give the same therapeutic effects as tobacco products.

 

[BROBS]

And then also sell products to help people “quit”. That’s a huge market especially if there is some type of ban that causes mass cessation.

 

[brian64]

In the case of tobacco, I suspect Embers is correct in how it will go.

As for any type of prohibition in general, it's true that it appears to be a mistake and failure on the surface, but it provides an excuse for many things the "system" could not justify otherwise in the way of control and surveillance of the masses, militarization and funding of police powers. Black markets also create a lot of cash flow for the banking system and Wall Street.

There is also of course the corrosive effect of corruption in law enforcement, which creates all kinds of opportunities for criminal elements within the system.

There have also been other motivations, such as with hemp...eliminating competition from various products derived from it: paper, fabric for clothing and other uses, oils, plastics, etc.

And the pharmaceutical angle, as Embers also mentioned.

Then of course there is also covert funding of various military/intelligence operations. So the whole idea that black markets are created from a motivation to "do good" or "promote health and safety" or the ever present excuse of "protecting the children" are all mostly smokescreens.

 

[Edwin Weaver]

You misread the comment, the ban was immediate.

You're right, it's the lack of effect and the fashionable cessation programs and self help groups that will be the death nail for tobacco.

More likely pharmaceutical companies realizing they can make more money selling drugs that can give the same therapeutic effects as tobacco products.

Please FORGIVE ME if I misread your comment.
I won't name who the power hungry/ control freaks are, that would not be right for me to judge. GOD will do the judging of everything and every one.
While I still have breath, I will smoke and enjoy my pipes and my tobaccos.
Edwin

 

[brian64]

control freaks wanting to control people in every way.

Control is the worst form of addiction.

 

[Chasing Embers]

While I still have breath, I will smoke and enjoy my pipes and my tobaccos.

Same. Buy what you can, when you can, while you can.

 

[Edwin Weaver]

Same. Buy what you can, when you can, while you can.

embers;

There will always be TOBACCO to buy. Different, but available. When I was in Saudi Arabia I was able to smoke my pipe. The Tobacco was spicier but I enjoyed it. The only place I could not find pipe tobacco (so I had to smoke their cigarettes) was in Korea (South Korea). but after all these years they probably have pipe tobacco now, especially with all the US military there.
Edwin

 

[Chasing Embers]

There will always be TOBACCO to buy.

Perhaps, but with more cost than my wallet will be able to bear, hence my 300+ pound cellar.

 

[dcon]

Just as a historical note, Prohibition was not “immediate “. There had been a very long (at least since the Civil War) temperance movement in the nation. These groups had basically become the voice of numerous religious and political organizations until they became the “majority” viewpoint.

 

[oldgeezersmoker]

Well, I am not sure just what it is we are supposed to learn from history, but as a consequence of things like the Smoke Free Ontario law, cigarette smuggling is apparently a billion dollar plus industry in Canada. They have clandestine processors, tribal sovereignty loopholes are an issue, and thieves even break into farmers barns and steal their tobacco crops. I don’t think you need to pay much attention to history to believe that the world has gone mad. If it ever was sane. Sure glad I can laugh.

 

[olkofri]

And you suggest resisting, how? It's not the people in power. It's your neighbors, friends and family who keep the pressure on the politicians or "the people in power."

True. It's also your neighbours, friends and family who keep harassing you to quit "for your own good".

It's also your neighbours, friends and family who will be ratting you out to the powers that be if they catch you smoking your pipe after tobacco is declared illegal.

The black market looks attractive, but how can you guarantee the quality of the merchandise? Already in some countries black market cigarettes have been found to contain all kinds of crap—literally: residues from human feces were found in contraband cigarettes coming from India.

 

[condorlover1]

@ olkofri Well I guess that adds a whole new meaning to the phrase 'It tastes like shit!' ..... ?

 

[brian64]

as a consequence of things like the Smoke Free Ontario law, cigarette smuggling is apparently a billion dollar plus industry in Canada. They have clandestine processors, tribal sovereignty loopholes are an issue, and thieves even break into farmers barns and steal their tobacco crops.

If that's true, then Embers' assessment may not turn out accurate after all.

The black market looks attractive, but how can you guarantee the quality of the merchandise? Already in some countries black market cigarettes have been found to contain all kinds of crap—literally: residues from human feces were found in contraband cigarettes coming from India.

Another standard aspect of black markets.

 

[brian64]

There had been a very long (at least since the Civil War) temperance movement in the nation. These groups had basically become the voice of numerous religious and political organizations until they became the “majority” viewpoint.

Useful idiots (useful to the "powers that be" that is).

And it's a cycle that feeds on itself...in the sense that black markets create violence, which is then blamed on the prohibited substance rather than the illegal market...and the useful idiots then demand the system exercise even more control...etc, etc.

Then there are the even worse substances..."street drugs"...that are themselves a product of prohibition...such as moonshine, crack, etc. And again, the standard reaction is to point to these types of products as further justification for prohibition.

Problem + Reaction = Solution, is how the game is designed...how the masses are played.

The cure is almost always much worse than the disease.