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sablebrush52

The Bard Of Barlings
Jun 15, 2013
19,747
45,289
Southern Oregon
jrs457.wixsite.com

Briar Lee

Lifer
Sep 4, 2021
4,835
13,901
Humansville Missouri
Game on!


I have a friend who is an utter, stone cold atheist.

One night years ago we were sitting on a hill at night fifteen miles south of Winner South Dakota and I will never again see as many stars. It was just incredible, the world a flat pancake to the horizon and not one light except for Winner twinkling like diamonds, and the faint dot of light from Colome.

He looked at me, and said it’s all advanced mathematics, the result of the Big Bang.

My reply was, who lit the fuse?

It’s either an incredible accident or calculated design.
 

didimauw

Moderator
Staff member
Jul 28, 2013
9,959
31,831
34
Burlington WI
I have a friend who is an utter, stone cold atheist.

One night years ago we were sitting on a hill at night fifteen miles south of Winner South Dakota and I will never again see as many stars. It was just incredible, the world a flat pancake to the horizon and not one light except for Winner twinkling like diamonds, and the faint dot of light from Colome.

He looked at me, and said it’s all advanced mathematics, the result of the Big Bang.

My reply was, who lit the fuse?

It’s either an incredible accident or calculated design.
The accident really WAS incredible....Ya know?
 
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Streeper541

Lifer
Jun 16, 2021
3,059
19,333
43
Spencer, OH
As an amateur astronomer for nearly my entire life, I am fascinated with the new discoveries and science being published out of Webb. As a man of the cloth however, it doesn't shake my understanding of the universe. No math and no surprises. "είπε ο Θεός"
 

Winnipeger

Lifer
Sep 9, 2022
1,288
9,670
Winnipeg
Depends on the theoretical physicist. My brother was a theoretical physicist who held that it was all theory and could hit a wall at any moment. This would have delighted him.
Well yes. I was speaking hyperbolically. It's an interesting finding. It does draw somewhat settled science into question which is...uh...unsettling.

If it actually is massive galaxies at the edge of space time it means something is not right, either with the Big Bang Theory, Gravity, or who knows what. That shouldn't be surprising I guess. I think everyone knows the problems with the theories of gravity. Theories are just theories, and reality is out there. Maybe our ape brains are ultimately incapable of truly understanding what we're looking at, and Einstein wasn't that smart after all, but at least here on earth, our cell phones work.

In the realm of theory, I don't think physicists can even agree on whether or not physics describes — or is capable of describing — reality, at all. That's one of the most interesting questions. Somewhere in a book by Erwin Schrödinger I read, he said something to the effect that if you think physics describes reality, then you don't understand physics. Maybe the universe is just a big house of mirrors, created by all that gravitational lensing, and there's no way to know what we're actually looking at. Or maybe it really is just the playground of space cats.
 

brian64

Lifer
Jan 31, 2011
9,622
14,723
I'm not the least bit surprised. I predicted this very thing a few times in conversations with people over the years...that if they keep looking farther away they'll just keep seeing more galaxies.

And I can only chuckle at how the "big bang" is continually referred to as if it's a fact...it's utter nonsense IMO.
 

Winnipeger

Lifer
Sep 9, 2022
1,288
9,670
Winnipeg
I'm not the least bit surprised. I predicted this very thing a few times in conversations with people over the years...that if they keep looking farther away they'll just keep seeing more galaxies.

And I can only chuckle at how the "big bang" is continually referred to as if it's a fact...it's utter nonsense IMO.
I've always had the same intuition. The Big Bang Theory depends on all kinds of assumptions that are ultimately untestable and unprovable. Like, without knowing where gravity (or anything) comes from, how do we know it exists everywhere in the universe, or that the speed of light is constant throughout spacetime, or that what we see in the sky isn't a mirage? It's pretty hubristic to think humans can figure out what happened 13.7 billion years ago using math and fancy looking glasses. Cool telescope though.
 

brian64

Lifer
Jan 31, 2011
9,622
14,723
The Big Bang Theory depends on all kinds of assumptions
Yeah there are all kinds of assumptions that aren't generally questioned. One really interesting book I read on all of this many years ago is Genesis of the Cosmos by Paul LaViolette:

Exposing the contradictions that bedevil the big bang theory, LaViolette offers both the specialist and the general reader a controversial and highly stimulating critique of prevailing misconceptions about the seldom-questioned superiority of modern science over ancient cosmology.

PAUL A. LaVIOLETTE, Ph.D., holds degrees in physics and systems science and has conducted original research in general system theory, theoretical physics, astronomy, geology, climatology, and cosmology.


 

Winnipeger

Lifer
Sep 9, 2022
1,288
9,670
Winnipeg
Yeah there are all kinds of assumptions that aren't generally questioned. One really interesting book I read on all of this many years ago is Genesis of the Cosmos by Paul LaViolette:

Exposing the contradictions that bedevil the big bang theory, LaViolette offers both the specialist and the general reader a controversial and highly stimulating critique of prevailing misconceptions about the seldom-questioned superiority of modern science over ancient cosmology.

PAUL A. LaVIOLETTE, Ph.D., holds degrees in physics and systems science and has conducted original research in general system theory, theoretical physics, astronomy, geology, climatology, and cosmology.


Theoretical physics and philosophy are close cousins. One uses math and the other uses words. Whether or not they can provide ultimate answers to perennial questions, or whether they're worthwhile pursuits, is itself a philosophical question that may be unanswerable. But humans have to do something to pass the time. Wittgenstein and Gödel both offered evidence that human knowledge can only ever be incomplete. We'll be able to accurately describe the universe only once we can get outside of it and look back in. Cosmological Physics is attempting to describe the inner structure of an eye, by using the very same eye to look out and describe what it sees. (IMHO).