Is the tenon bent on this Dunhill?

[milk]

Because I’ve been recently burnt on an estate Dunhill, I thought I’d ask a question here. This pipe might get bid up beyond me anyway. I thought I would ask about this pipe on auction. Does it look like the tenon is bent? I’m just noticing the way the stem doesn’t seem to fit flush against the shank. If so, is this something an amateur can fix? Like, with heat? I know it’s hard to tell so maybe I should ask, if there is a problem wherein the stem isn’t sitting flush against the shank, is this fixable for an amateur? It could just be dirty.

 

[Briar Lee]

Every Dunhill is hand made.

I doubt that Cumberland tenon could be bent if you tried, the way it looks.

The mortise wasn’t straight, and the workman filed away the vulcanite to mate stummel and stem.

That’s why they have that White Spot, to help you line up the stem.

This is one of the reasons why I own over a hundred Lees.



That Lee will never crack the shank, the stem won’t get loose, or too tight, and if it goes over center I can take a pair of pliers and fix it, myself.

It was such the perfect joining method Lee went to the Dunhill type push stem before they shut off the lights and called it over. Every pipe maker today would use the Lee system except for tradition, and it costs more to manufacture than a push stem.

 

[TheIronMonkey]

It looks like a lot of gunk is built up on the face of the shank. It might sit flush once cleaned up. If the face is that dirty, chances are the mortise is caked up, too, and needs to be cleaned.

 

[georged]

Can't tell from the pics if bent or not. Also, crud build-up can affect fit.

fwiw: a bent tenon isn't rare because lots of people think that expanding a loose tenon by heating it and pressing the end on a hard surface is a good idea (it's not). Fit problems after doing that are more common than the desired result.

Clean everything thoroughly and you'll know what you're working with.

 

[milk]

It looks like a lot of gunk is built up on the face of the shank. It might sit flush once cleaned up. If the face is that dirty, chances are the mortise is caked up, too, and needs to be cleaned.

That’s what I thought.

Can't tell from the pics if bent or not. Also, crud build-up can affect fit.

fwiw: a bent tenon isn't rare because lots of people think that expanding a loose tenon by heating it and pressing the end on a hard surface is a good idea (it's not). Fit problems after doing that are more common than the desired result.

Clean everything thoroughly and you'll know what you're working with.

Yes. I haven’t won this pipe and I may not. I just wanted to check because I had a bad experience recently. Whatever is going on with this pipe I don’t think it’s too bad but it’s likely others will outbid me anyway. Thanks!

 

[Chasing Embers]

Every Dunhill is hand made

Excluding special pieces, no more so than any other pipe factory.

I doubt that Cumberland tenon could be bent if you tried, the way it looks

It doesn't take much heat to soften those to make them pliable.

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

It looks bent to me... I don't think it's something an "amateur" with no pipe repair experience could fix properly. If it were just a cruddy mortise/tenon/shank face you would expect to see a gap all the way around. This looks like its touching at the bottom with a fairly large gap at the top which indicates a bent tenon. It is repairable, but takes a practiced hand. Keeping in mind its near impossible to tell from a couple of poor quality photos, you would have to have the pipe in your hands to inspect it. Might I suggest that the internet is not a great place to find bargain Dunhill pipes. The market fervor around the marquee has driven prices sky high and bred a glut of dishonest sellers looking for a quick buck. Pipe shows are great places to get discount Dunhill's that need a little work with prices commensurate to their condition. I personally have found unsmoked Dunhill's at estate sales for $5. I got my first one for $35 several years ago at the St Louis pipe show, @georged helped me get it squared away. I generally default to his opinion on all things Dunhill as he is the worlds foremost expert on their repair.

The only way to fix a bent tenon (properly) is to turn a mandrel to fit inside the tenon, heat the tenon and insert the mandrel UP TO the bend, not into the bend or past it. And slowly straighten it. It would take multiple heat cycles and attempts to get it perfect and every attempt you risk snapping it off or otherwise deforming it.

I would pass on this one, the bent tenon is a red flag and indication of other issues unseen in photos.

 

[milk]

It looks bent to me... I don't think it's something an "amateur" with no pipe repair experience could fix properly. If it were just a cruddy mortise/tenon/shank face you would expect to see a gap all the way around. This looks like its touching at the bottom with a fairly large gap at the top which indicates a bent tenon. It is repairable, but takes a practiced hand. Keeping in mind its near impossible to tell from a couple of poor quality photos, you would have to have the pipe in your hands to inspect it. Might I suggest that the internet is not a great place to find bargain Dunhill pipes. The market fervor around the marquee has driven prices sky high and bred a glut of dishonest sellers looking for a quick buck. Pipe shows are great places to get discount Dunhill's that need a little work with prices commensurate to their condition. I personally have found unsmoked Dunhill's at estate sales for $5. I got my first one for $35 several years ago at the St Louis pipe show, @georged helped me get it squared away. I generally default to his opinion on all things Dunhill as he is the worlds foremost expert on their repair.

The only way to fix a bent tenon (properly) is to turn a mandrel to fit inside the tenon, heat the tenon and insert the mandrel UP TO the bend, not into the bend or past it. And slowly straighten it. It would take multiple heat cycles and attempts to get it perfect and every attempt you risk snapping it off or otherwise deforming it.

I would pass on this one, the bent tenon is a red flag and indication of other issues unseen in photos.

Good advice. Thanks for that very on-point and direct information.

Excluding special pieces, no more so than any other pipe factory.

View attachment 197431




It doesn't take much heat to soften those to make them pliable.

The cumberlands, even though factory, are the one line I like. I owned one years ago and traded it. I don’t remember why I did that. They always catch my eye.

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

Excluding special pieces, no more so than any other pipe factory.

This right here Almost ALL briar pipes even Dr Grabows are hand made to some extent. There is no such thing as a pipe finishing machine, automated pipe sandblaster, robo-rusticator, Stain-o-mat, etc. Nearly all briar pipes have passed through the hands of multiple craftspeople.

 

[Chasing Embers]

Nearly all briar pipes have passed through the hands of multiple craftspeople.

Until you get into the artisan category but that's another story.

 

[RustiePyles CPG]

Until you get into the artisan category but that's another story.

Exactly

 

[rmbittner]

I’m going to suggest another possibility (perhaps influenced by your post about the earlier bad experience): The stem may not be fitting correctly because it wasn’t made for this pipe. I don’t know if you can actually rule this out without having the pipe in hand, but you can at least make sure that this specific pipe model originally shipped with a Cumberland stem (perhaps optional) from the factory.

If you are serious about wanting a Dunhill, I’d encourage you to get off eBay and look at the estates offered on SmokingPipes.com, by Pipestud, and from other resellers with great reputations. That way you won’t have to worry about any unmentioned issues.

I will confess that all of my Dunhills were purchased on eBay. But I’ve only purchased from sellers with both high sales and perfect-to-near-perfect satisfaction scores, and I’ve only purchased pipes that had been cleaned and prepared for immediate smoking. They were affordable, but they weren’t “deals,” per se.

 

[didimauw]

Can't tell from the pics if bent or not. Also, crud build-up can affect fit.

fwiw: a bent tenon isn't rare because lots of people think that expanding a loose tenon by heating it and pressing the end on a hard surface is a good idea (it's not). Fit problems after doing that are more common than the desired result.

Clean everything thoroughly and you'll know what you're working with.

Ruined one of my favorite pipes doing that.....

Also, yes the picture looks like somehow cake got built up on the connection there!

 

[pappymac]

This right here Almost ALL briar pipes even Dr Grabows are hand made to some extent. There is no such thing as a pipe finishing machine, automated pipe sandblaster, robo-rusticator, Stain-o-mat, etc. Nearly all briar pipes have passed through the hands of multiple craftspeople.

That's why I've always thought the term should be "Hand Finished" on many of the brand name pipes.

 

[Briar Lee]

Looking closer at the Dunhill, I think the seller is taking bad pictures of a good pipe.

Here’s a perfect square shanked Lee bulldog.



That Lee was machine fraised and drilled using jigs. Then it was hand finished.

On the other hand, the White Spot on the Dunhill is on the same left side of the pipe as the Lee stars are.

Right side



Left side

The “bent” tenon is actually canted down slightly when assembled. The draft hole cants downward, likely exactly where it should exiting at the bottom of the chamber.



There was more free hand work on the Dunhill. Notice that when the pipe shank was hand cut square it’s not as even as a machine cut Lee.

After clean up, the Dunhill is worth about ten to twenty times more than the $30 Lee.

Ten minutes with grapeseed oil, 4/0 steel wool, Everclear and pipe cleaners would slick up that Dunhill a lot.

Pity, it’s never going to have 7 pointed jeweler’s gold inlaid stars.