Is old Algerian Briar Superior?

[Briar Lee]

I’ve learned more the last month on this forum about pipes than I could imagine before I joined.

For one thing, it may be the majority consensus among extremely knowledgeable and experienced pipe smokers that construction is more important than grade of briar, for smoking quality.

Before I joined the forum I took pipe construction for granted. If a rare pipe didn’t accept a standard pipe cleaner I got out my drill and made it better. All my life I’ve thought the grade and quality of the briar selected had everything to do, with smoking quality,,,,plus a bit of luck, I suppose.

Sometimes, but rarely, a briar that was cheap and plain when new is a smoking machine.

So I think we all agree a smooth natural finish straight grain pipe is going to be the top dollar pipe from the maker, whoever makes it and sells it.

And from what I’ve been reading, until the Algerian War in the 1960’s dried up supplies, the most expensive pipes from Dunhill and other top makers used Algerian briar.

Some pipes are cured in oil, some use briar cured and aged longer than others, but after successful break in, it shouldn’t matter how a the briar in a very old, smooth, natural finish, straight grained, large chambered Algerian briar was prepared.

This $20 eBay purchase I just made, should equal the best smoker ever sold.

It says right on it, straight grained Algerian briar.

But let’s talk about Algerian briar, for a bit.

Was it really superior?

 

[burleybreath]

But let’s talk about Algerian briar, for a bit.

Was it really superior?

Not in my experience. I have had several pipes marked "Algerian Briar," and they have been both good and bad. I smoked a huge Edwards billiard last night that remains a great smoker. I had a bent Edwards billiard that was Algerian, and it always smoked strong, almost bitter, no matter what I did with it. Reluctantly, I threw it away. I really don't notice anything consistently distinctive in the wood, good or bad.

 

[jpmcwjr]

All aspects are important. There's good, bad and mediocre briar in all areas. Same with curing and construction. Then there's aesthetics which is important to many, and many not.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

“Superior”it’s right there on the pipe. Just like Stokkebye Luxury Navy flake is just a tad less that Newmister Superior Navy Flake. It’s really good that these companies help is decide what the best is.
What does “superior” even mean? To whom?
Now, I’m not saying that briar grade doesn’t matter. I’m just suggesting that there could be many aspects of briar that are merely subjective. As that fellow, Mr. Marley once sang, “the stone that the builder refuse will be the head cornerstone.”
And, to me that means that two people can look at the same stone and grade them differently.
YMMV

 

[didimauw]

“Superior”it’s right there on the pipe. Just like Stokkebye Luxury Navy flake is just a tad less that Newmister Superior Navy Flake. It’s really good that these companies help is decide what the best is.
What does “superior” even mean? To whom?
Now, I’m not saying that briar grade doesn’t matter. I’m just suggesting that there could be many aspects of briar that are merely subjective. As that fellow, Mr. Marley once sang, “the stone that the builder refuse will be the head cornerstone.”
And, to me that means that two people can look at the same stone and grade them differently.
YMMV

The question is, does the greatest smoking and most expensive pipes in the world, "Briar Lee" , use Algerian briar?

 

[burleybreath]

The question is, does the greatest smoking and most expensive pipes in the world, "Briar Lee" , use Algerian briar?

Then there's the question, does a pipe marked "Algerian Briar" actually have any Algerian briar in it anywhere, besides in the marketing fantasies of the manufacturer?

 

[Briar Lee]

The question is, does the greatest smoking and most expensive pipes in the world, "Briar Lee" , use Algerian briar?

Lee, the maker of Pipes by Lee, remains an enigma.

Every unsmoked (or barely smoked) Lee pipe I’ve ever had the pleasure to break in, didn’t need break in. I’ve read where Lee oil cured his pipes. He surely did something different, to where they don’t need break in.

But Lee pipe catalogs just read Reach for the Stars, symbol of the World’s Finest Pipe. Pick a shape, send money.

More money, more stars, better grained briar.

Lee pipes look like Algerian briar to me, but Lee never advertised it.

Lee Star Grade pipes all say “A Limited Edition”. I have many of all the same shape, spread out over the 7 point, 5 point, stamped star, and push stem eras.

But two Lee stingers that are exactly the same are rare. That may have been what made them Limited Editions, different stingers.

Lee never bragged about his improved screw in stem, nor his removable stingers.

Lee sold Briarlee seconds that the customer just sent money and Lee sent a pipe. They are push stem Lees dyed dark, and stamped Briarlee. Same pipe otherwise, maybe some carving, a fill or two, and outrageously good briar.

Lee even made an entire brand, Pipe Maker, that are in Lee shapes with Lee stingers. Who sold those?

There’s no picture of Lee, or his factory, if he had one.

The pipes were distributed by the Stewart - Allen company. Who were they?

Stewart Lee Allen?

Lee - Pipedia

pipedia.org

When my $20 Algerian Straight Grain arrives, I’m looking at the stinger, if there’s one, first.

My bet this one is something Wally Frank had made in France, and sold through his catalog.

 

[mso489]

Iwan Ries used to source their house pipes from Edwards, their Benton brand, which was made with oil-cured Algerian briar. I have several of these. I don't think they are categorically better than other of my good pipes, some of which cost a good deal more. However, they have been notably durable and started and remained good smokers. I bought these about thirty-five years ago, so correcting for inflation, I believe their were about eighty U.S. dollars in today's currency.

 

[lawdawg]

I have an old Hialeah Algerian briar that was a $10 eBay buy. I’ve heard the Algerian briar story, and the pipe smokes well, but not any better than my other pipes.

 

[didimauw]

Lee, the maker of Pipes by Lee, remains an enigma.

Every unsmoked (or barely smoked) Lee pipe I’ve ever had the pleasure to break in, didn’t need break in. I’ve read where Lee oil cured his pipes. He surely did something different, to where they don’t need break in.

But Lee pipe catalogs just read Reach for the Stars, symbol of the World’s Finest Pipe. Pick a shape, send money.

More money, more stars, better grained briar.

Lee pipes look like Algerian briar to me, but Lee never advertised it.

Lee Star Grade pipes all say “A Limited Edition”. I have many of all the same shape, spread out over the 7 point, 5 point, stamped star, and push stem eras.

But two Lee stingers that are exactly the same are rare. That may have been what made them Limited Editions, different stingers.

Lee never bragged about his improved screw in stem, nor his removable stingers.

Lee sold Briarlee seconds that the customer just sent money and Lee sent a pipe. They are push stem Lees dyed dark, and stamped Briarlee. Same pipe otherwise, maybe some carving, a fill or two, and outrageously good briar.

Lee even made an entire brand, Pipe Maker, that are in Lee shapes with Lee stingers. Who sold those?

There’s no picture of Lee, or his factory, if he had one.

The pipes were distributed by the Stewart - Allen company. Who were they?

Stewart Lee Allen?

Lee - Pipedia

pipedia.org

When my $20 Algerian Straight Grain arrives, I’m looking at the stinger, if there’s one, first.

My bet this one is something Wally Frank had made in France, and sold through his catalog.

So all of these stories and enigmas, and we dont even know who Lee is?!?!?

A mystery.....

 

[OzPiper]

Was it ever just some copywriter's hype ?

And is all Algerian briar of equal quality ? Obviously not !

I take it all with the proverbial grain of salt ?

 

[sasquatch]

Alfred Dunhill wrote of Algerian briar in "About Smoke" and he wasn't flattering: "Impressed by the beauty and richness of the grain, he experimented with the new briar, only to find that owing to its spongy qualities the results were disappointing. The unused blocks of root were consequently put aside and forgotten." This opposed to Calabrian briar described as "light, tough, and close grained", and that still applies today. Algerian briar is soft and almost waxy to handle and carve, it's quite strange compared to Italian wood, and especially Calabrian which is indeed both tough and light. He eventually came back to this wood and seemingly in desperation invented the Shell process as a way to make it useable.

I've got an old Mastercraft "Hand Made" which is obviously anything but, a factory stummel with a factory stem, and it touts "Algerian Briar". It smokes just fine owing to its simple geometry. But I never smoke it and think to myself "Thank God it's Algerian". It is in no way superior to Italian or Spanish briar.

 

[Toast]

I’ve read where Lee oil cured his pipes. He surely did something different, to where they don’t need break in

Genuinely curious to know if you've tried any other oil cured pipes? Ashton, Gilli, & (occasionally) Radice make them that I know of. I'm sure there are others. If they break in as good for you maybe that's the thing.

From my very (very) limited experience though it isn't something I'd pay extra for.

 

[Briar Lee]

Genuinely curious to know if you've tried any other oil cured pipes? Ashton, Gilli, & (occasionally) Radice make them that I know of. I'm sure there are others. If they break in as good for you maybe that's the thing.

From my very (very) limited experience though it isn't something I'd pay extra for.

I own several DGB pipes and a few Petersons, some London Made EA Carey pipes, and a Comoy’s and, a few by Savanelli, Stanwell, Nording, Bari, and Lorenzos, and exactly one high dollar Don Carlos One Note, I bargained the pipe shop down to $100, which is my only true luxury brand pipe. Otherwise it’s untold dozens and dozens of Kaywoodies and Lees and Webers and Grabows and other American made factory pipes.

My Don Carlos came in a natural finish with a blast bottom, in the color of Algerian briar. It smokes divinely, as something that expensive with that massive of bowl walls should.



But even that Don Carlos needed breaking in. Lee pipes do not.

Yet not even Lee, ever advertised that.

This afternoon I also bought a $25 Weber Golden Walnut Prince of Wales or maybe a bent Apple.

It’s so close to new, it will likely taste like briar for awhile.

 

[Toast]

I bargained the pipe shop down to $100

Your bargaining skills are obviously top notch. That's a steal.

The white bar means it's a fairly old pipe - he switched to the note stem mark a while ago. So old if not ancient briar. But I don't believe he oil cures (as I understand it that's quite a faff, so anyone who does oil cure is likely to use it as a selling point).

 

[telescopes]

Algerian Briar is soft. It takes well to sandblasting. It takes well to sanding. It is also a forgiving Briar in that if you make a nick on it, you can easily sand it out as well.

Algerians. I have a story about them. In 1996, my wife and I were traveling on a subway in Paris. We were at the back of the train in the very last seat. The car was mostly empty and as we sat there, a man... a French man, said to us in a heavy French accent, "You are sitting on the seat."

We replied, "What do you mean?"

He looked at us and as plain as can be said, "The seat. It is the only seat on a subway with a space under the seats to store something. This is where they put the bombs. The Algerians. It is always the Algerians."

I remember his words to this day.

I think he was a wise man.

Today, when people say to me, "Who would do such a thing?" No matter what they are referring to or talking about , I think back to what that very wise French man said.

'It's the Algerians. It is always the Algerians."

 

[sablebrush52]

So I think we all agree a smooth natural finish straight grain pipe is going to be the top dollar pipe from the maker, whoever makes it and sells it.

And from what I’ve been reading, until the Algerian War in the 1960’s dried up supplies, the most expensive pipes from Dunhill and other top makers used Algerian briar.

First of all, I like sandblasts, and don't consider them at all inferior to smooths. Nor do a lot of people I know who smoke pipes.

Algerian Briar wasn't considered the best quality in the early days of the 20th century, but both Barling and Comoy found ways to make some of the finest pipes ever to come out of England using Algerian briar. It probably helped that they took a longer air curing approach and that they did their own harvesting and milling. After the 1954 Algerian War for Independence those harvesting operations closed down. Barling bought wood from a variety of sources, looking for wood that met their metric.

Only a very few who were not carvers would be able to tell the difference.

My experience tells me that good wood is where you find it. The rest is processing.

 

[kcghost]

That's probably where we should leave this discussion: Good wood is where you find it.

 

[Briar Lee]

Your bargaining skills are obviously top notch. That's a steal.

The white bar means it's a fairly old pipe - he switched to the note stem mark a while ago. So old if not ancient briar. But I don't believe he oil cures (as I understand it that's quite a faff, so anyone who does oil cure is likely to use it as a selling point).

The shop was selling cigars in the 1990s like there was not going to be a tomorrow, and the owners purchased a glass display case filled with extremely high dollar pipes, starting at $250 or $300, but no Dunhills.

I’ll have to find it, but I bought a sample pipe just stamped XXXX for the same $40 as their basket pipes from that experiment.

The experiment was a bitter failure.

After maybe ten years, one day after court I waved a hundred in front of the owners and said

For that fat Bulldog!

The other pipes, didn’t impress me much.

 

[Briar Lee]

That's probably where we should leave this discussion: Good wood is where you find it.

That reminds me of an old hillbilly song, but most things do.

AFTER THE FIRE IS GONE