Help Evaluating Estate Pipe Condition

[GCabot]

Hello, all!

I am looking to buy a nice estate Dunhill and need some advice on the condition of one I am considering. I am a bit nervous since I have never purchased an estate pipe before and, obviously, Dunhills are not cheap, so any help would be appreciated.

Below is a picture of the mouth of the bowl:

It is noted that the bowl is slightly asymmetric and has one or two small nicks. Supposedly the bowl interior is straight and has no damage. I tried to evaluate the condition based on the SmokingPipes grading guide, but apparently the distinctions elude my untrained eye.

The pipe has a silver band, and the description says that the stem has a small crack hidden by said band, but that the crack is very fine, to the extent it cannot be picked up on camera. How much of a concern should this be?

There is some wear to the button and oxidation of the bit (which I assume can just be cleaned?)

Generally, should this condition reduce the value of the pipe by any significant degree?

Thank you!

 

[Chasing Embers]

Dunhills are not cheap, so any help would be appreciated.

You're not looking hard enough. I've never paid more than $150 for an estate Dunhill.

The pipe has a silver band, and the description says that the stem has a small crack hidden by said band, but that the crack is very fine, to the extent it cannot be picked up on camera. How much of a concern should this be?

That would be am instant "no" for me.

 

[lightmybriar]

Hello, all!

I am looking to buy a nice estate Dunhill and need some advice on the condition of one I am considering. I am a bit nervous since I have never purchased an estate pipe before and, obviously, Dunhills are not cheap, so any help would be appreciated.

Below is a picture of the mouth of the bowl:
View attachment 30645
It is noted that the bowl is slightly asymmetric and has one or two small nicks. Supposedly the bowl interior is straight and has no damage. I tried to evaluate the condition based on the SmokingPipes grading guide, but apparently the distinctions elude my untrained eye.

The pipe has a silver band, and the description says that the stem has a small crack hidden by said band, but that the crack is very fine, to the extent it cannot be picked up on camera. How much of a concern should this be?

There is some wear to the button and oxidation of the bit (which I assume can just be cleaned?)

Generally, should this condition reduce the value of the pipe by any significant degree?

Thank you!

A lot depends on the quality of the repair work. Some silver bands will be permanent, attractive, and no problem, while others can be applied sloppy, and besides looking bad, they will not hold.

The bowl should be fine, based on your description. I personally do not care for cracked shanks, even if repaired, but that’s just my personal taste.

As to the pricing, I personally would not pay “full” price for a repaired shank pipe. Functionally, a well done repair like that will not detract from the pipe at all, but I don’t like knowing that I’ve got a broken item.

 

[dmcmtk]

What year is it?

 

[stokesdale]

I only buy my estate pipes from Smoking Pipes...I would suggest you do the same especially if you are new to buying one. I have purchased about a dozen from them and the descriptors I go no further than are "smoked but quite clean", "minor dings around the rim" or at the very most 'minor bowl carbonization'..I stay away from anything worse than that. They do a great job cleaning and sanitizing the pipe for you and usually they are reasonably priced.

 

[georged]

You're not looking hard enough. I've never paid more than $150 for an estate Dunhill.

Something that needs to be said any time this situation gets mentioned, regardless of pipe brand.

Scoring pipes that are sold below their market price is not indicative OF their market price.

The reason is it contains a hidden cost called "opportunity cost". In a nutshell, it means the time spent searching for killer deals could have been spent earning money doing something else.

I've known a number of people who have put automated "scans" and notifications in place to reduce that, but the time that was spent learning how to implement and utilize those processes is also opportunity cost. It's just been moved farther up the line.

Anyway, you get the idea. There's no such thing as a free lunch. The Second Law of Thermodynamics will not be denied.

As for the original poster's questions, I'd say pass. A cracked shank can be from straight-up abuse (dropping), but can also indicate an area of soft wood that cracked spontaneously and will keep on doing so. And truly doing repair banding right, meaning compressively and with sufficient band width to stay fixed is fiendishly difficult, so it probably wasn't in this case (the odds are against it).

 

[Chasing Embers]

Something that needs to be said any time this situation gets mentioned, regardless of pipe brand.

Scoring pipes that are sold below their market price is not indicative OF their market price.

The reason is it contains a hidden cost called "opportunity cost". In a nutshell, it means the time spent searching for killer deals could have been spent earning money doing something else.

I've known a number of people who have put automated "scans" and notifications in place to reduce that, but the time that was spent learning how to implement and utilize those processes is also opportunity cost. It's just been moved farther up the line.

Anyway, you get the idea. There's no such thing as a free lunch. The Second Law of Thermodynamics will not be denied.

I'm not that complicated, I just enter what I'm looking for then I shop and compare.?

 

[stokesdale]

Something that needs to be said any time this situation gets mentioned, regardless of pipe brand.

Scoring pipes that are sold below their market price is not indicative OF their market price.

The reason is it contains a hidden cost called "opportunity cost". In a nutshell, it means the time spent searching for killer deals could have been spent earning money doing something else.

I've known a number of people who have put automated "scans" and notifications in place to reduce that, but the time that was spent learning how to implement and utilize those processes is also opportunity cost. It's just been moved farther up the line.

Anyway, you get the idea. There's no such thing as a free lunch. The Second Law of Thermodynamics will not be denied.

That's why I buy all mine from Smoking Pipes...I have other things to do with my time. They have a nice selection, if not on that day you can simply do a quick check of their site every Monday and Thursday when they add new estate pipes until one comes up that you like, and your done, nice and quick.

 

[lukasstrifeson]

Hello, all!

I am looking to buy a nice estate Dunhill and need some advice on the condition of one I am considering. I am a bit nervous since I have never purchased an estate pipe before and, obviously, Dunhills are not cheap, so any help would be appreciated.

Below is a picture of the mouth of the bowl:
View attachment 30645
It is noted that the bowl is slightly asymmetric and has one or two small nicks. Supposedly the bowl interior is straight and has no damage. I tried to evaluate the condition based on the SmokingPipes grading guide, but apparently the distinctions elude my untrained eye.

The pipe has a silver band, and the description says that the stem has a small crack hidden by said band, but that the crack is very fine, to the extent it cannot be picked up on camera. How much of a concern should this be?

There is some wear to the button and oxidation of the bit (which I assume can just be cleaned?)

Generally, should this condition reduce the value of the pipe by any significant degree?

Thank you!

Hey, welcome to the forum!

I think you'll have to be more specific about your intentions with the pipe before some of your answers can be more accurately answered.

From the picture you've attached, the rim/bowl does not bother me (although I'd like to see the condition of the inside of the bowl) - looks like a little know how and a couple of hours of elbow grease.

Like others have already said, depending on the application of the silver band (was it original? aftermarket to remedy the cracked shank? what's the quality of craftsmanship on the fix?) but generally speaking a crack in the shank is a big no for me as well.

I only buy my estate pipes from Smoking Pipes...I would suggest you do the same especially if you are new to buying one. I have purchased about a dozen from them and the descriptors I go no further than are "smoked but quite clean", "minor dings around the rim" or at the very most 'minor bowl carbonization'..I stay away from anything worse than that. They do a great job cleaning and sanitizing the pipe for you and usually they are reasonably priced.

I would have to disagree with this statement. My personal experience have taught me that the Estate Dept. at SP.com is adequate at best but often falling short of that and sometimes their practices are down right questionable.

 

[lukasstrifeson]

Something that needs to be said any time this situation gets mentioned, regardless of pipe brand.

Scoring pipes that are sold below their market price is not indicative OF their market price.

The reason is it contains a hidden cost called "opportunity cost". In a nutshell, it means the time spent searching for killer deals could have been spent earning money doing something else.

I've known a number of people who have put automated "scans" and notifications in place to reduce that, but the time that was spent learning how to implement and utilize those processes is also opportunity cost. It's just been moved farther up the line.

Anyway, you get the idea. There's no such thing as a free lunch. The Second Law of Thermodynamics will not be denied.

As for the original poster's questions, I'd say pass. A cracked shank can be from straight-up abuse (dropping), but can also indicate an area of soft wood that cracked spontaneously and will keep on doing so. And truly doing repair banding right, meaning compressively and with sufficient band width to stay fixed is fiendishly difficult, so it probably wasn't in this case (the odds are against it).

Lol you know Chasing loves to get his rocks off to this kinda of stuff, just allow him ?

 

[craig61a]

If the band is aftermarket, which it sounds like it may be, was shank of the pipe trimmed back or modified in some way? Is the nomenclature obscured? The crack doesn’t show up on camera? Why not?

There’s a lot of what if’s associated with this pipe. And if I couldn’t buy for under $50 or less, I’d walk away from it.

You’ll have plenty of opportunities to score a good Dunhill if you’re patient. Damage and alterations to any collectible significantly reduce the value.

This almost sounds the same as a Dunhill I bought on eBay several years ago. The seller didn’t disclose the crack. And at first glance you wouldn’t have noticed it in the photos. I notified the seller, they denied there was anything wrong with it. Reviewing the photos and applying filters to the photo the crack stood out plain as day.

Well I had to get PayPal involved to get a refund.

As I said, take your time and you’ll find the right Dunhill. Don’t piss away good money on some humped up piece of junk.

 

[craig61a]

I would have to disagree with this statement. My personal experience have taught me that the Estate Dept. at SP.com is adequate at best but often falling short of that and sometimes their practices are down right questionable.

Everybody’s got their opinion, but I take issue with your characterization of SP’s Estates.

Over the years I’ve probably bought over 100 Estates from SP. I’ve never had an issue with them, and the condition of said pipes where represented truthfully.

If there is an issue, they are more than willing to allow for its return, as long as it hasn’t been smoked.

They are human and at times could overlook something but that’s not been my experience. I fail to see how your assessment of adequate, often falling short, and questionable apply...

 

[georged]

Lol you know Chasing loves to get his rocks off to this kinda of stuff, just allow him ?

Bargain hunting is a hobby in itself for some people. Meaning with everything, not just pipes. Sometimes it goes to near-OCD extremes. I know a guy whose personal worth is many tens of millions of dollars, but he can't bring himself to pay more than 50% of retail for anything, no matter how small.

Anyhow, my comment was independent of Mr. Embers. There are a lot of new pipe smokers on this board and I wanted them to understand that a pipe's market value is unrelated to finding ones listed by uninformed/desperate/etc. people, garage sale specials, and so forth.

Speaking of which, I was once peripherally involved in a Rich Esserman deal (the radio show's last interviewee) where a pipe that was bought for $1 at a church fundraiser/yard sale was re-sold for $7100.

 

[BROBS]

Sounds like a piece of junk to me.
I got an unsmoked 1968 Tanshell panel billiard for $250 that @jiminks now owns and uses for St James Flake. ?

So taking both George and Embers’ comments into consideration, I too would wait for a better pipe or a better deal.

 

[mingc]

Speaking of which, . . . a pipe that was bought for $1 at a church fundraiser/yard sale was re-sold for $7100.

Thus concluding a successful fundraiser for the church!

 

[georged]

Thus concluding a successful fundraiser for the church!

Actually, no. The person who was selling stuff on the church's behalf is who sold the pipe for a dollar. A one-of-a-kind, unsmoked, "window display sized" giant Dunhill ODD Tanshell.

It was known to have been made, but thought lost forever. Then it turned up... for sale in a small town in upstate New York, on a card table between a pile of moldy encyclopedias and used Tupperware containers. lol

The lady who bought it then sold it on ebay for $7100. (I helped her create an informed listing). Rich Esserman was the buyer.

 

[mingc]

No. The person who was selling stuff on the church's behalf is who sold the pipe for a dollar.

The lady who bought it then sold it on ebay for $7100. (I helped her create an informed listing). Rich Esserman was the buyer.

Understood. The church didn't do well.

 

[lukasstrifeson]

Everybody’s got their opinion, but I take issue with your characterization of SP’s Estates.

Over the years I’ve probably bought over 100 Estates from SP. I’ve never had an issue with them, and the condition of said pipes where represented truthfully.

If there is an issue, they are more than willing to allow for its return, as long as it hasn’t been smoked.

They are human and at times could overlook something but that’s not been my experience. I fail to see how your assessment of adequate, often falling short, and questionable apply...

Fair enough, personal experiences obviously varies but I'm a "what-have-you-done-for-me-lately" kind of guy and while I've bought many excellent estate pipes from SP.com in the past, my recent experiences with them over the last 18 months or so have really soured my opinion.

And since you've asked:

2 out of 5 pipes I bought over this period were what I would consider mislabeled - one had an obvious replacement stem and the other had a restored bowl but was labeled as (unsmoked). A more forgiving person probably could've chalked this up to an innocent oversight but given how substantially these things affect the value, I was personally not so trusting.

To be fair and balanced, when I did bring these points to their attention, they refunded the pipes immediately no questions asked.

Now the 3rd incident I'm less forgiving with: against my better judgement I impulse bought a birth-year Sherlock Peterson with a gold band, describe as being in mint, like new, unsmoked condition. When it arrived to me I noticed a huge 7mm crack on the gold band (after a little research a common sign of age with these pipes), I alerted SP.com with photos of the crack, and once again they accepted the return immediately.

However a week or so later, I saw the same pipe back up for sale on SP.com for the same price. The video demonstrating the pipe (which was the same one when I bought it the first time) I rewatched carefully and noticed the convenient finger placements to hides the crack on the band. The listing was gone after being up for another 2 or so weeks, I did not follow up, but some unlucky soul probably bought it...?

So out of the 5 estate pipes I've recently bought from SP.com (who charges a reasonable premium over eBay et al for their "reliability") I had to return 3. And just to be fair, the 2 I ended up keeping were fantastic pipes.

I don't know, maybe I'm just butt-hurt, but how would you categorize these experiences?

Bargain hunting is a hobby in itself for some people. Meaning with everything, not just pipes. Sometimes it goes to near-OCD extremes. I know a guy whose personal worth is many tens of millions of dollars, but he can't bring himself to pay more than 50% of retail for anything, no matter how small.

Anyhow, my comment was independent of Mr. Embers. There are a lot of new pipe smokers on this board and I wanted them to understand that a pipe's market value is unrelated to finding ones listed by uninformed/desperate/etc. people, garage sale specials, and so forth.

Speaking of which, I was once peripherally involved in a Rich Esserman deal (the radio show's last interviewee) where a pipe that was bought for $1 at a church fundraiser/yard sale was re-sold for $7100.

Completely agree on this sentiment, I was just joshing with you and Chasing. LOL.

 

[ssjones]

Pass on a cracked shank/repair.

SP is not infallible, but they will stand behind their estate pipe sales 100%

 

[verporchting]

My thoughts, for whatever they are worth to you:

If you’re new to estate pipes I’d recommend you buy from a reputable seller with a good history for accurately describing and pricing his wares.

Whether it’s a fair price is up to you, but that assumes you know something about the pipe and it’s objective value, what the description of the condition really means and whether those flaws matter to you. So, first objective then subjective determinations on your part.

Alternatively, you can gamble and learn along the way about those things - perhaps the hard way, or maybe you get lucky. Maybe you will need to clean, repair and refurbish some pipes you aren’t pleased with.

And maybe that’s just what you want - the hunt and the opportunity to tinker.

Me? I’d buy from a well known source. There are lots here. I occasionally take a chance on a pipe I’m willing to clean up or pay a professional to do it for me but not at Dunhill prices. If you’re concerned that’s an indication you’re not going to be happy by my way of thinking.

Personally, I wouldn’t buy a banded pipe. Might pay a pro to repair a beloved pipe, but wouldn’t buy one. Too many fish in the sea, unless it’s a fabulously rare item and the band is the best you can find.