Has Anyone Ever Come Across A Hallmarked NICKEL Peterson?

[warren]

The Irish and a couple of other countries are just as "anal" as the Brits in ensuring, as much as possible, that consumers are not cheated when it comes to precious metals. These countries require that certain information must be noted on the metals. Ergo, required hallmarks are also useful in identifying the year the metals were fitted to the pipe. While not definitive in dating a pipe, as the metal can be fitted any time post pipe production, the marks can assist in the research.
Cosmic is indeed correct that a "hallmark" is simply a striking. I took the OP as addressing the striking of precious metals attesting to purity, date, etc. as opposed to logos, signatures, etc. My mistake!

 

[bungee]

To Cosmic's point, that's exactly what they are on nickel Petersons. Just something they fancied stamping the pipe with. But they took care of arranging the "symbols" in exactly the same manner in which they arrange hallmarks on sterling silver

I also have some Jeantets and Gracos that have them.
@Warren, I think, that in Peterson's case, they are absolutely meant to be confused with sterling silver hallmarks from a distance.

Or else why would they arrange them in exactly the same way that they arrange silver hallmarks?

If you know nothing about pipes or precious metals (which was my case a few months back), but you have seen strikes or hallmarks on precious metals before (like cutlery for example) you may very well believe that the band is made from a precious metal.

It has clearly happened to the OP, has it not?
My two cents.
Cheers,
J

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Isn't Ireland still a part of Britain? when did that change? Britain, England, Great Britain, Ireland, whatever, I never know what to call all of those funny talking buggers, ha ha!

 

[aldecaker]

Only the Six Counties of Northern Ireland are still part of the UK. The rest of it has been independent for a while now.

 

[warren]

The OP was pretty sure it was not sterling. Maybe a bit confused or unsure. The marks on the pictured Peterson were badly worn. But, fresh and clear, they look nothing like "required" identifying hallmarkings. At least to me. Required hallmarks are very arcane and resemble "jibberish."
I think if Peterson or other manufactures were attempting to cheat a customer, as you imply, the fraud would be more subtle. Perhaps I'm simply not suspicious enough to see fraud in the logos. They openly ID the metals used as fittings in every pipe description I've read.

 

[bungee]

Warren, I'm not saying they were trying to cheat their customers or commit fraud. I'm just saying that they probably wanted to make the pipe look a bit more expensive to someone looking from a distance.
Regarding the "crisp required identifying hallmarks", only someone who knows pipes or precious metals would be able to differentiate them from the "symbols" striked on these pipes.
When I got my first estate Pete, which was a nickel military mount, I thought it was sterling silver because of these "symbols or logos". The shop attendant was kind enough to correct me.
And please don't think I'm trying to argue or make a point. It just surprises me that they decided to arrange these logos in the same way they arrange their silver hallmarks. That's all.
Cheers,
J

 

[disinformatique]

They are faux hallmarks, just to make you feel better.

 

[disinformatique]

@Cosmic Gold and Silver is hallmarked in India, jewellery or otherwise.

 

[pitchfork]

cosmic, if I understand what you're saying...is that whiskey I smell?... (ha ha) Anyhow, lots of folks (most?) use "hallmarked" to refer to items that have the mark from the assay office (Birmingham, Chester, London, e.g.) -- but of course this also includes the maker's mark (K&P, KFC, etc.). When antique and pipe collectors say, "that's not a real hallmark," they mean it hasn't been officially assayed and marked. So yeah, K&P is a hallmark, but that Peterson, whatever it's made of, doesn't have "real" hallmarks. I know, that makes no sense, but people know what they mean when they say those things.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Hallmarked means it is signed. Assayed or struck means... nevermind. :::sigh:::

Yeh, every country has some form of assay, especially those of British influence. But, the British are the only folks with a whole office for it. In the US, it is upheld only in lawsuits, meaning, it is not a matter of enforcement. In India it is a matter of bribes. England doesn't enforce it either. They just pay people to laser etch the metal the strike all day (yep, no longer using strikes, However hallmarks can be put anywhere by anyone). It is the most inane waste of money.

 

[pitchfork]

I edited what I wrote above, because I was just making a mess of it.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

There ya go. The Makers mark and the seal are hallmarks. Hallmarks represent people or entities. The assay of the metal, (.925, ss, 14k, etc...) is the assayer's strike. These are the only "important" marks.

Hallmarks don't mean anything of importance, unless you are tracking where something came from. The strike is what reveals the value or purity of the metals.

Hallmarks are piss on a tree; strikes can get you in trouble if they are off.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

The letters K&P Petertson ARE hallmarks.
Yes, yes, I hate semantic stuff. But, when people say things like, "you cannot hallmark nickel," well, that is when semantics will keep someone from being wrong or just sounding dumb.

I didn't post this to tell someone that they are wrong, just to clarify what we are all talking about. Funny, with a whole box of stamps on the bottom shelf that I don't use anymore, I just don't give any stamp much thought. England, Ireland, India, I don;t even bother looking up the stuff anymore, because the world is rampant with fraud, because too many people do take those silly stamps too seriously.
I have to know what the metals are that I am repairing, so that I don't overheat .800 coin silver, or use the wrong solder on sterling, or argentium. But, 9 out of 10 times the assay is a lie, and a platter or urn turns out being the wrong formula than was marked. Some British government worker struck the thing without paying any attention, or without running the test. Money changing hands, etc... I get a silver fork that needs to be soldered, and it is marked 925 or some other formula of the time, and if I don't assay it myself and just use the strike, then I will most likely screw up a 100 year old piece of antiquity. I wouldn't vest too much confidence in those little marks.

 

[pitchfork]

9 times out of 10?! I have generally low expectations for most situations, but that surprises me.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

It could also mean that mostly the mis-marked silver is usually the stuff that passes over my bench for repair. 9/10, I could be a bit exaggerating, but it is close. I hate those damned marks. The one time you trust them, and the silver pools up when the torch just touches it, and your heart immediately comes up into your throat. F'ers!!

Never trust them, ever.

 

[ericusrex]

Great information, thank you all! So it is definitely nickel, as I suspected. Do these symbols date the pipe at all?

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Yeh, yeh, I didn't even get to the part where it is not nickel. But, if I kept going, everyone would think I'm even more of a$$hole, and you'd be so bored that you'd drag me out back and shoot me.
But, just by looks, it is either maybe white brass or most likely silver. Looks every bit like silver to me. Nickel doesn't tarnish. Look at a nickel coin. It is white-grey in color, doesn't scratch easily, and doesn't tarnish in the recesses like this one has inside the stamped area. But, of course, I would have to test it to know for sure.

 

[simong]

Dear Mr. Cosmic, speaking to you as an 'anal' Englishman as you put it, I would just like to inform you that here in England when one goes into a jewellers or silversmiths (as I'm guessing that's your trade),we are shown/told/informed that an item is silver or gold because is it is hallmarked as such. Therefore avoiding any confusion with motifs/signature/half assed symbols or 'strikes' if I dare say you somewhat analy described it. Please don't take offence, but if I were a prospective client willing to lay down $8000 on an engagement ring , it would somewhat lessen the blow even sound better to know that the ring was hallmarked as such, & not assayed,striked or stamped up as something resembling an irishmans dick!

 

[disinformatique]

@Cosmic Thanks for the informative lesson regarding hallmarks and strikes. Reading all the comments above, what I meant earlier was the precious metals in India, especially Gold and Silver bear strikes and hallmarks from the government testing Centers for their purity etc. The jeweller/trader are not required to put their personal hallmarks as people only care about the guarantee by the government regarding the metal as it helps maintain the resale value.
Chris :puffpipe:

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Simong, pardon me, but in an $8000 ring with lets say a heavy 2.5 grams of 14k gold, which is a tad under 2pennyweights worth of half gold, half alloy gold at whopping $80+/- (I am actually overestimating), this is what you are worried about? About a whopping 1% of the retail value? Assayer's do not check the purity of the diamonds, so that is left to chance. But, once you've walked out of the store with the ring and when you go to sell that ring... do you think the buyer (pawn shop, jewelers, or gold dealer) is going to rely on those assayer's strikes (or Hallmarks)? No, they assay that ring themselves, because as trusting as they are, they are not fools.
Oh, and sure people want penises on their rings. Maybe they don;t want a picture of one, but what do you think the stone represents? A big hard rock, the bigger the better, eh? :wink:
I am coming up on 50 years in the business from working retail jewelry to production, gemology, to now one-of-a-kind work. And, I am active in the Ganoksin Project where we discuss and help folks with international laws for those who work internationally. While, I am human and maybe be prone to be off from time to time, This is the gist of it.
The Hallmarks alone mean nothing without the strike. And, putting Hallmarks on something that is not a precious metal is not a crime, as long as the Hallmarks do not include an assayer's strike. Thus, the reason the thread was sounding funny to me.
And, I apologize for the misunderstanding. I meant that the English "government" was anal as an organization, not all Englishmen. I am sure that there are a few of non-anal, clumsy, haphazard, and relaxed in their ways Englishmen, just as with every nationality of human beings.
Now, I am done with the thread. I have explained myself. Any other drivel from me would just be overkill. This isn't a jeweler's forum where credentials would back me up, so you are free to take my words or toss them.
Have fun, don't be so serious, and happy smokes... ::