F#&@ing Nanny Legislation

[bytor]

Arg!

Saturday evening I placed an order for some tobac, a stanwell churchwarden, and some supplies with P&C. I received an e-mail this morning from them stating that they can no longer ship tobacco products (with the exception of large cigars) to Washington state, per WA law.

I already knew of the law, but to date have never had any issues.

Stupid laws! Grrrr.....
Edit: I told them to go ahead an process the remainder of the order for the churchwarden and supplies. Now I have to figure out where I'm gonna get some new tobacs to try.

 

[sapo59]

I had to hear that. It's pretty crappy. Hope you find somewhere to buy tobacco. If not maybe we can work out arrangements to send you some. I have no reserve about sending a brother in need some 'baccy.

 

[bytor]

I've done a bit of research and I am still trying to get my head around the law....but it sounds like it is a Class C Felony with up to $10,000 in fines for purchasing over the internet/phone. What I'm not sure of, is whether the buyer or the seller is at risk of prosecution.
I stopped by one of the very few smoke shops locally that sells some pipe tobacco and picked up a few new-to-me tobacs to try out. They've got a fairly large selection of Lane bulk, but a poor selection of tins. I'm a bit suspicious of whether or not the bulks are really Lane, but picked up an ounce of 1Q to sample. I was also able to pick up a tin of Peterson's Sunset Breeze and a pouch of Captain Black (white pouch). As you can tell...I've decided to try a few that are supposed to have a nice room note (mostly for the Mrs.)
Oh ya...sorry about not putting it in the "Tobacco Legislation" room.

 

[andrewtpoland]

You may want to try approaching your favorite smoke shops and asking them to order it for you. Whenever I have run into a sticky situation like that, that's been my recourse.
Best of luck!

 

[oppie]

Bytor, How about the border states, Idaho or Oregon? Would it be practical to drive to a border state and load up? IDK. Your post got my head spinning. I getting very close to saying" For the first time in my life, I'm not proud of my country"

 

[andrewtpoland]

If you are near a border state that isn't a bunch of baccy-nazis, I'd open a post office box in that state. That way you can have your items sent to the box. There's gotta be a means to work around this. After all, isn't that what the law is for?

 

[bytor]

@ Oppie: Yeah...I've been keeping that option in mind. My sister lives just across the border from Oregon, so the next time I'm down there I plan on stocking up a bit. I've also learned that there is a small business about 60 miles south of me that recently started up specifically because of this law. I may very well need to travel down there soon.
@ Andrew: I may very well try your suggestion. However, the lack of Pipe shops in my vicinity makes me think that there just aren't that may pipesters around me (I can't remember the last time I've seen anybody with a pipe). It's worth a shot though.

 

[cortezattic]

These kinds of laws encourage underground networking; making criminals of otherwise loyal, patriotic citizens -- many who have spilled blood for the country. It's a shame. Pretty soon the term "tobacco runner" will enter the American vocabulary.
$10,000.00 fine: Here in the People's Republic of Cook County you wouldn't be penalized to that extent for buying Schedule 1 narcotics!

 

[bytor]

@ Phil: The only problem with that is...she is across the border from Oregon (also in Washington state).
@ Cortez: It's frightening that purchasing pipe tobacco over the internet is a greater crime that possessing wacky tobaccy! (misdemeanor in WA)

 

[cobsandclays]

But Bytor- it's for the CHILDREN'S PROTECTION- remember?!?!?!?! We have to prevent them from getting their hands on pipe tobacco, pipes, tampers, matches and not let them develop the patience to learn how to keep the damned thing lit for more than two minutes... after they steal mom's credit card to order over the internet, that is. Pipe tobacco creates CRIMINAL CHILDREN, BYTOR!!! [/sarcasm]
What part of the state are you in? I'm in Lynnwood and when the wife and I took a day trip to Portland we went to Rich's on Alder Street. We talked with Steve Books for about an hour about tobacco and pipes. Nice guy. Maybe your sister can run for the border and then ship it to you? The law says -shipping- it across state lines is a felony, not carrying it across and then shipping/delivering in-state. [edit to add, I think it actually might be a felony to ship in state... there goes that]
I assure you my head damn near came off when I got my email from the company who told me about this law. I am fit to be tied, actually. I smoke a couple times a WEEK and all of a sudden I'm a worse pariah than a freaking drop-out stoner at the University (who I'm sure is quite a nice fellow, but I didn't want to hang out with him when I was at the UW, I'm not gonna hang out with him now )
There's supposed to be a speakeasy style place in Tacoma called Tacoma Tins, which is located in the basement of a yarn store If this link gets moderated, PM me and I'll send it to you (or use the Google feature on your favorite internet machine). http://www.lambsearfarm.com/tacomatins/ I've never been, but I'll be in T-town next weekend and may stop by on the way home.
We are well and truly effed after that internet cigarette sales case a few years back. The "state's rights" and "interstate commerce" arguments bounced off the courts like a tennis ball at Wimbledon.

 

[bytor]

lol @ Phil! Don't worry buddy, it's not like I can't get any tobac...I just can't sample as widely as I'd like! Plus the whole internet shopping experience is lost.
Hey Cobs! I'm just over in Mukilteo. I've been wanting to hit Rich's down in Portland, but I haven't been down there in a while. Yep...Tacoma Tins is the place I was thinking of in one of my earlier posts.

 

[cobsandclays]

Where have you been going locally? The couple of places I've been to have essentially been head shops. I could either buy shisha or that shredded newspaper stuff that used to be sold as RYO, but has been rebranded as "pipe" tobacco.

I bought some Cap'n Black about six weeks ago to give it a try- $10.80 for the pouch! That's more than I used to pay for some tins I really liked...

 

[cobsandclays]

So the smoking in parks ban goes into effect today in Seattle (no, not an April Fool's joke- I wish). In response I printed up some business cards:

 

[bytor]

Perfect!

 

[bytor]

There's a reason I'm becoming a hermit!

 

[python]

That card is brilliant Cobsandclays!

 

[brazz]

Can I ship tobacco to someone as a gift or is that illegal ?

 

[bytor]

Hmmm....I think that might actually be safe. Here is a snippit of the law as written.
27 NEW SECTION. Sec. 2. A new section is added to chapter 70.155 RCW

28 to read as follows:

29 (1) A person may not:

30 (a) Ship or transport, or cause to be shipped or transported, any

31 tobacco product ordered or purchased by mail or through the internet to

32 anyone in this state other than a licensed wholesaler or retailer; or

33 (b) With knowledge or reason to know of the violation, provide

34 substantial assistance to a person who is in violation of this section.

35 (2)(a) A person who knowingly violates subsection (1) of this

36 section is guilty of a class C felony, except that the maximum fine

37 that may be imposed is five thousand dollars.

 

[raftergtex]

That is outrageous, and probably has more to do with taxes than any health concern. Let me know if you ever want a reshipment from the great state of Texas where, to date, we still believe in individual liberties.
Edit: I am an attorney in my spare time, and I would call that language quoted above ambiguous. If I "ordered or purchased" some tobacco and then sent it to you as a gift, seems like the language would still apply and make me a felon, even though you did not "order or purchase" it yourself.

 

[bytor]

Rafter, I absolutely agree about the taxes and the ambiguity. As I stated earlier, I'm still not entirely certain whether I, as the purchaser, am at risk of being prosecuted or whether it falls solely on the seller. At any rate, I have decided that I will no longer even attempt to make tobacco purchases over the web, both for my concerns and the concerns of a seller who may not be aware of the laws. Iwan Ries filled an order for me early this year (before I was fully aware of how the law read), but more recently Pipes & Cigars would not.
If you interested in the whole document it can be found at:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/documents/billdocs/2009-10/Pdf/Bills/Senate%20Passed%20Legislature/5340-S.PL.pdf
Edit: Individual liberties are no longer of concern in Washington state it would seem. Everybody has to pull together to "protect the children" from the evil tobacco.