Dunhill White Spot Drama

[jvnshr]

You guys have burned the White Spot of Dunhill, you have poked the eye of the sleeping monster, now it is time to pay for it. Curse is upon us.

Kidding aside, it is an interesting thread and we (mods) don't want to close it. So let's keep it clean.

 

[beefeater33]

Ok............. I have now moved into 100% convinced territory!
The spots were always "Imitation Ivory", as indicated in the actual court documents from 1922, when Alfred was trying to secure exlusive rights to the white dot.........
Here's the indisputable truth, in written form.......... the Gospel, so to speak..........
My hat's off to George, and Rob, I am an enlightened man....... :worship:
Now I'll say it: Case Closed"
Scroll down to page 435, lines 25-35, if you don't want to read the whole document..........
Dunhill Court Case, 1922

 

[pitchfork]

Fireworks and crazy aside, this is a really interesting thread.
If there's actually no physical or documentary evidence --anywhere -- that the white spot was ever made of ivory, then (as George noted) the burden of proof flips. Is there any evidence that the dots were ivory? Other than folklore?
Still, a couple of caveats I'll add...
Folklore isn't always merely myth and nonsense -- that's why it's worth trying to find out whether there is any evidence that the spots were ever made of ivory. The idea that they were is so prevalent that it's at least worth considering why that is the case. Maybe the idea arose just from the appearance of the dots. That certainly seems plausible and likely.
Archives are often incomplete. I don't distrust the archivist (why would I?), but generally speaking it's helpful to know exactly what kind of evidence an archivist is citing/drawing from in drawing conclusions. I do a fair amount of archival research and I've had archivists look a 2nd or 3rd time for something they insisted wasn't there, but actually was. I'm not suggesting that's directly relevant here, but "The archivist says...!" isn't as definitive as you might think.

 

[pitchfork]

Well done, Beefeater!

 

[beefeater33]

^^ Thanks for posting that, Pitch!

I tried post it in that form, and couldn't figure out how........ :crazy:

 

[brian64]

Great job Beef! :clap:
Now...altogether everyone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmALA8miQY8

 

[beefeater33]

Good one Brian!............ Are you suggesting the "black dot" Dunhills had an ebony dot?........ :mrgreen:

 

[brian64]

Are you suggesting the "black dot" Dunhills had an ebony dot?

All I can tell you is, I heard that from a guy.
But I can also tell you this...for just $15.99 this beautiful Ebony Wood Pipe can be yours now!
https://www.etsy.com/listing/567994585/handcrafted-ebony-wood-pipe-approx-9?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=ebony wood pipe&ref=sr_gallery-1-2

 

[didimauw]

Yes let's remember what this thread was about. It's not about Georged, it's not about Cosmic, it's about the white dot things.
Let's keep talking about the white dot things.
I would continue the conversation myself, but have nothing intelligent to say, as I've never owned one. 8O

 

[lightmybriar]

A round of applause! What a cool adventure this was. Great work!

 

[ashdigger]

I knew I never had a beef with beefeater. :clap: :clap: ::

 

[mikethompson]

I just sat down to my breakfast while the kiddies are asleep and read through this whole thread, and what a great thread it was. My wife teaches in a high school, but I feel like I got all the teenage drama this morning.
Again, great detective work by George.

 

[seacaptain]

I've been involved in MANY different hobbies over the years. It continues to amaze me how similar the underlying issues are and how similar people act regardless of the type of hobby.

 

[crashthegrey]

Actual court evidence combined with scientific evidence. This has been a great thread.

 

[jpmcwjr]

Very interesting!
Barling folks note:

In 1917 one Barling put some pipes on the market; with a white spot upon them end the Plaintiff commenced proceedings. The action would have been tried in March 1918, when conditions owing to the war were very difficult, and the Plaintiff accordingly served notice of discontinuance. 'I'his was the first challenge to the Plaintiff and has not been pleaded in the present action as one of the prior users.
In March 1920 the Plaintiff was again challenged by a firm of Wolf Brothers, who issued, and claimed the right to issue, pipes with a silver spot upon, the side of the mouthpiece. In their advertisements in the trade papers they drew attention to the spot in such terms as " our brightest spot,." Proceedings were commenced but after an attempt to prove prior user of white spots by other people, the Defendants consented to judgment for the injunction claimed and full relief with costs.

 

[paddypiper]

This thread has been a bit of a wild ride so far. I love it.
George you’ve gone above and beyond to prove your point, and I agree with everything you’ve said. Unfortunately there will always be people that won’t accept the truth no matter what evidence is presented to them.

 

[brendhain]

Nerve racking to look at those pics!
Nice to know the truth of it!

 

[mikethompson]

We need a Hall of Fame for threads like this.

 

[civalwar]

Thanks for the information.

 

[cigrmaster]

Someone should tell secondhandsmoker on ebay the dots are not Ivory. He has a thing claiming they are on most of his Dunhill auctions.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ENGLISH-ESTATE-PIPE-DUNHILL-24-SHELL-PATENT-1924/372212306930?hash=item56a99513f2:g:HFQAAOSwtBdadPf1