Dunhill now made in Italy?

[PipeyPiper]

Good day gents, first time poster here. I recently bought a new Dunhill pipe at my local tobacconist/pipe maker. While he was not there his assistant told me they have not recieved a new Dunhill in over two years as they all go to China now and the small shops here in Europe are lucky if they get any at all. And they won't even bother to try to order anymore.
She then went on to say something so sacrilegious that I was sure I didn't hear the words that just came out of her mouth properly. A conspiracy theory that makes UFO's killing JFK look like childs play. She said,.......wait a sec,.....she said,.......oh, man....how do I say this?.....

She said......errrrrr....DUNHILL PIPES ARE NOW MADE IN ITALY.

There, I said it. (That was hard)
PLEASE tell me this woman has no idea what she is talking about. Please tell me Dunhill pipes are still and will forever be made in England.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

A few years ago, when Music City Marketing was still distributing Dunhills in the US, we invited them to come show their Dunnies to our pipe club and talk to us about the pipes. They didn't do a very good job, because he told us that all stummels were made in France, and that they were about to change their name because the "Dunhill people" didn't want to be associated with tobacco anymore.

Now, everyone on here told me that this guy was full of shit, and soon after they stopped distributing Dunhills. So, I thought maybe he was full of shit. Then, the pipes changed their name to Alfred's White Spots and the pipe tobaccos started being branded Petersons.

We've got anonymous, "Can be anyone" posters to a forum, telling me one thing. And, my pipe club all heard with their very own ears from the actual Dunhill distributers standing before us in person telling me another.

All I know, is that Dunhill sells a very pretty pipe. But, if I were going to buy one, I would rather have an older one. As for the rest of the folklores and random people on a pipe forum... where they are made now or what the company thinks, doesn't matter a hill of beans to me.

Ha ha, so now we hear that they are made in Italy. That probably won't affect the price of tea in China much.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Your very first post, I now see. You should introduce yourself to the guys on the introduction section.
They'll be very weary of a new poster with world shattering news posting this for the very first time.
And, welcome!!

What is your favorite pipe brand?

 

[jguss]

For what it’s worth recent pipes are clearly stamped as made in England (the image below shows a pipe manufactured last year). Not sure what local content laws are in the UK but I find it impossible to believe a pipe can be made entirely overseas and legally bear this nomenclature. I imagine the stummel can be turned elsewhere (a common industry practice since the 1800s) but would expect all subsequent steps to be done in England. I’m curious to know if anyone here has factual input that says otherwise.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

For what it’s worth recent pipes are clearly stamped as made in England (the image below shows a pipe manufactured last year). Not sure what local content laws are in the UK but I find it impossible to believe a pipe can be made entirely overseas and legally bear this nomenclature. I imagine the stummel can be turned elsewhere (a common industry practice since the 1800s) but would expect all subsequent steps to be done in England. I’m curious to know if anyone here has factual input that says otherwise.

View attachment 106981

We always have someone with factual input, ha ha. Just wait...

As to made in England... for avid readers of crafting periodicals, we know that that shit is argued and changed in court all the time. If the fit the stem into a finished stummel in England, they can get away with saying made there. Just one win for that makes it precedence over written law. I wouldn't put much stock in just that.

But, for advid Dunhill collectors, I think that if Alfred Dunhill Jr came on here and explained it, still people would believe what they want. On both side of the fence.

 

[jguss]

We always have someone with factual input, ha ha. Just wait...

As to made in England... for avid readers of crafting periodicals, we know that that shit is argued and changed in court all the time. If the fit the stem into a finished stummel in England, they can get away with saying made there. Just one win for that makes it precedence over written law. I wouldn't put much stock in just that.

But, for advid Dunhill collectors, I think that if Alfred Dunhill Jr came on here and explained it, still people would believe what they want. On both side of the fence.

Here’s an informed layman’s (meaning non-lawyer) discussion of the subject: see Origin Marking | Legal & Practical Issues in the UK - https://www.urbancottageindustries.com/blog/country-of-origin-marking-law/, and the further material linked within the post.

My takeaway is that marking origin is not compulsory; law regarding the right to mark “Made in England” is not entirely clear; and anyone deciding to do so runs the risk of substantial damages under aggressive enforcement provisions. Facing that fact pattern if it was my business I would not mark country of origin unless I had a compelling reason to do so and a very strong argument under the partly superseded guidance embedded in the language of the 1968 Act: “goods shall be deemed to have been manufactured or produced in the country in which they last underwent a treatment or process resulting in a substantial change”. In my view that requirement would not be met by jamming a stem into a stummel and putting the result in a box. Risks acceptable to sketchy fly-by-night operators are generally not taken by large businesses. I would bet money that Dunhill’s pipes undergo steps in England that give it a strong defense against enforcement liability.

 

[mikethompson]

Technically, there aren't any new Dunhill pipes anymore, as they have been rebranded as White Spots like in the post above.

Dunhill finished with pipes years ago.

 

[sasquatch]

Dunhills are made in the shop at Walthamstow.

Stanwells are made in Italy now (or maybe France at this point) instead of Denmark. Maybe that's what your confused salesperson was thinking of.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Here’s an informed layman’s (meaning non-lawyer) discussion of the subject:

Ha ha, there is a difference between what we pipe folks think of as "making a pipe," and what a court might interpret as making a product. I'm sure that just as the brindled stems could be made in Germany and then turned in England and be classified as "made in England," to a non-pipe courtroom, having stummels made somewhere and then finished in England, makes it "made in England." ...if this is the premise to our entire argument here.
As you know a law can be written in a book and not enforced as worded because of court outcomes. Just saying...

I'm rather impartial on this whole Dunhill thing. I see no need to take the pixie dust away from a pipe collector's magic hoard. In fact, I love Dunhill. One of my favorite bulldogs is a Dunhill. I think even the new ones are beautiful, very beautiful pipes.

I just don't have a resolved opinion on this whole French turned (or now, Italian turned) stummels thing. But, I do find it fascinating.

What is the intent of a poster like this? Does he means to disenfranchise Dunhill collectors? Like Peterson haters, do they mean to sway others from buying? Ha ha, like that is even possible.
Just like I don't buy 100% into those who think they know it all about the pipe industry and pipe making. grain of salt.
However, if it is just a discussion point, then go ahead, discuss. This is EXACTLY what a forum is for.

 

[karam]

.

She said......errrrrr....DUNHILL PIPES ARE NOW MADE IN ITALY.

Waiting for Embers to say being made in Italy could improve their drilling

 

[PipeyPiper]

Op here, I have no intentions of taking anyones pixie dust away, lol Nor do I wish to start a war. I am not trolling the least bit. I have a few very fine Italian pipes so I have no beef with anything made it Italy. In fact I love most Italian made goods including my Savinelli and my Ducati.
I have always wanted a Dunhill like my grandfather had. I finally get around to buying one then hear this about Dunhill. From my understanding is that most new pipes will still have "Made in England" because they still are/were. The "Made in Italy" pipes are not yet on the market as this move is somewhat recent. But then again, as was already posted, maybe they have been made in Italy for some time but because some bloke in England fits two pieces together they continue the England stamp. Just wanted clarification is all.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Just wanted clarification is all.

Yehhhhh, ha ha, un less you are easily "clarified," I don't think you'll get it here. I might suggest sending the White Spot company an email, if that is what you want.

While forums are best for discussions. They're pitiful for absolutes. IMO.

 

[mso489]

The miracle of Dunhill pipes is the marketing that jacked the prices up to two or three times what comparable premium pipes cost. After that, I wouldn't put anything past them. If they can chisel the profit margin a little higher by having the stummels turned at lower labor costs, who can defy them? They're just a little too bloodthirsty for profits to make me want to own one, new, used, or otherwise. My fantasy of the pipe community is that it wants a comfortable return, but doesn't want to skin their fellow pipe smokers. That's been the attitude of the artisan carver's I've met.

 

[mingc]

I love the smell of an unsubstantiated rumor in the morning! Actually, they're made in China now. China is by far The White Spot by Alfred Dunhill's largest market, so it made eminent sense to switch production to that country. As we all know, the Chinese are particularly enamored of luxury brands. They not only buy Dunhill by the dozens, but Dunhill clothing also sells well there. Think of all the dragon and other Chinese animal zodiac design pipes. In light of current logistical challenges, it is turning out to be a particularly timely switch.

 

[Simplicity]

This Pipedia article shows pictures from a factory tour in April 2019. The factory is located in Walthamstow, as Sasquatch indicated. Certainly appears to be more than just a stem fitting operation.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Also, the shop had Dunhills, so obviously they wanted to sell these Dunhills. Even if the shopkeeper thought that they were made somewhere else, why use that as a means of selling the pipes? Can we say, worst shopkeeper ever?

I suggest checking out another source for your pipes.

 

[pauls456]

My understanding, and I have it from good sources, at least as of last year, that Dunhills are made in the old London Dunhill factory, just as they were in the 2010's, 2000's, 1990's, etc. Also, many are currently stamped both 'White Spot' and 'Dunhill', so they are still Dunhill.
They are nice pipes. One could argue a bit overpriced, but there is the strong prestige factor to account for. In my opinion, the buttons are overly huge, and they should go back to the traditional Dunhill proportions for their stemwork.

Visiting The White Spot - Dunhill Pipes | Smokingpipes.com

Shane recounts his recent, awe-inspiring trip to the Dunhill factory in London, where all your favorite The White Spot pipes are made.

www.smokingpipes.com

 

[kcghost]

Well this leaves things in a cloud of fog to people wanting a new Dunhill doesn't it?? Glad I am not one of those blighters.

 

[cosmicfolklore]

Well this leaves things in a cloud of fog to people wanting a new Dunhill doesn't it?? Glad I am not one of those blighters.

I don't think so, but that's just my opinion. But, controversy tends to lubricate sales in some instances. It's free marketing. Ford had like less than a handful of explosions in their Pintos, and continued to enjoy rising sales of those things for years afterwards... tell they replaced it with the Escort.

Plus, how much of a gut punch is a post on a forum? This isn't the first. It has come up whether in a thread of it's own or within threads before.

Honestly, I think the bigger threat to Dunhill or White Spots or whatever is artisan pipemakers. They tend to pull from the same pool of buyers.

 

[sablebrush52]

Well, wherever they’re made now, they were turning them out in Italy 30 years ago according to the staff at the Dunhill store in Beverly Hills, where I used to accompany my late father-in-law.