Dunhill bowl height

[orlandofurioso]

Dear friends,
For this New Year I wish you all the very best !
Just recently I acquired this Dunhill Root 41032 pipe , imho it is in very nice condition and I did not pay too much .

I only wonder; the seller described the bowl height to be 45 mm, in real life it appears to be 40-41 mm.
Allright; Dunhill bowl heights did and do vary a little, the rim does not looked to be topped and the overall appearence looks just fine. Topping a rim 4 mm. is btw not an easy task to perform and this pipe does not look to have been smoked much.

Nevertheless I cannot help feeling a trifle worried.

Can I ask for your learned and appreciated opinions ?
https://www.ebay.de/itm/Dunhill-Pfeife-41032-Root-Briar-Pipe-Made-in-England-/273617647134?hash=item3fb4e1f61e%3Ag%3AHZkAAOSwmT1cGiiA&nma=true&si=y%252BgEel5xdO7ionTCJO78VJwQBkI%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

[mikethompson]

Can I ask for your learned and appreciated opinions ?

Yes, but I only have unappreciated views based on ignorance and conjecture.
The only thing that strikes me as unusual with that pipe is that the stamping for Dunhill seems a little faint. Maybe the pipe was refinished at some point? Maybe not though. It looks like a nice pipe either way.
I'm sure a Dunhill expert will chirp in here and I can return to the shadows.

 

[orlandofurioso]

Hi Mike,
Your unappreciated view is much appreciated by me
The stamping is a little shallow, but very clear. I meanwhile refurbished so many pipes that this one does not looks to be refinished to me. It is a nice pipe with very "delicate" graining and the stain looks to be original.
Mike; please stay in the light ( or maybe you (like I) prefer the dark ) and Dunhill experts please chime in, I need your help.

 

[mikethompson]

True, I have a few pipes with original stampings that are light as well.

 

[orlandofurioso]

Just so out of curiosity ; where are you located Mike ?

Cheers,

Roland

 

[ssjones]

It does appear to have been topped considerably, compared to this shape example sold by SmokingPipes. The bowl height here is listed at 47.75 mm. However they sell three others, all at significantly varying bowl heights (45.36mm, 42.64mm)

https://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/estate/england/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=155148

https://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/estate/england/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=270350

https://www.smokingpipes.com/pipes/estate/england/moreinfo.cfm?product_id=205960
CupOJones estate at 46.2 mm (converted from inches)
https://www.cupojoes.com/dunhill-root-briar-1978-estate-pipe-41032/
I'd be more worried about the wonky stem/shank fitment. I'd pass on this one, if it were my decision.

 

[orlandofurioso]

Hi Al,
Thank you for chiming in and posting the picture.

Yes, Dunhill bowl heights vary considerably, odd I think .
Why a wonky stem/shank fitment ? I've seen worse, looks to be fine to me. The stem sits straight on the shank every way and there is no rounding because of polishing.
Roland

 

[mso489]

If you are buying it only to smoke and have no plan to re-sell it, and if the shape appeals to you, and if you are not a Dunhill purist and would be entirely un-offended if it has been topped, and the price is right, it might be a deal. But part of the Dunhill appeal is its authenticity and tradition, and for the money, a "lesser" pipe in prime condition might be as good or better. This is an entirely subjective call. I wouldn't do it, but I'm not a Dunhill guy.

 

[sablebrush52]

Making assumptions from photographs is always dicey, but based on the other examples of this shape that Al put up, it does look like yours may have been topped. There's the matter of the super sharp rim edge and the matter of the stain itself, which doesn't quite match the rest of the pipe in some of the pictures. The rim looks "raw", if that makes any sense.
As for the shank/stem join that Al mentioned, look at the pipe from SP. See how the taper starts more gently and then increases toward the button. It's not a straight line, like the stem on your pipe, which also appears to have been carefully cleaned up, leaving only traces like the uneven shape of the button and some file marks.
Subtle variations in shape, even within the restriction set by adhering to a specific model pattern shape, are common with pipes that have any hand work involved in the finishing. But this pipe's bowl height goes well beyond that.
But this is all based on pictures, which are not the equivalent of having the dingus physically present.
Where's George Dibos when you need him? He's the perfect guy to provide intelligence regarding this.

 

[dmcmtk]

There's the matter of the super sharp rim edge and the matter of the stain itself, which doesn't quite match the rest of the pipe in some of the pictures. The rim looks "raw", if that makes any sense.

I'm with Jesse on this. Topped. Esp. seeing the remnant char on the otherwise sharp inner rim edge.

:|

 

[orlandofurioso]

mso : I intend to smoke it, but am a pathological Funhill purist too and refurbished quite a few , so hm...
Jesse : I agree with your concerns, I'm holding the pipe in my left hand now
About the rim; there is a little rim darkening which might explain for the discolouring, I own quite some Dunhills with super sharp edged rims though. I do not understand your interpretation of raw, can you more specific ?

I get your drift about the stem, but it does not so much alarm me ; many of my Dunhills have a more straight line shaped stem.

You have a very good eye There are some sanding marks, but can you show me where the button is uneven ?
The seller is willing to take it back for a full refund, he is reselling for an elderly gent.
Thank you both... with a little help from my friens..
GEORGE, WHERE ARE YOU ? WE NEED YOUR HELP

 

[sablebrush52]

This plays to my concerns about making assumptions from photographs but the button looks asymmetrical, slightly flattened profile:

So, trying to address the "raw" stain look. One of the things that George and I talked about, with regard to the telltale signs of a topped pipe, was the difficulty in restaining the rim so that it seamlessly blends with the original stain when seen from different angles under different lighting conditions. It's something that George makes sure is working when he tops a pipe for a customer. Most restorers don't do this, and it's one of the ways that I can spot a topped pipe.

In this image, the color and contrast are markedly different, even though the light isn't directly on the rim. Over time, stain gathers a patina, whether from smoke, finger oil, pollution, light, whatever, that clouds it. So I'm not seeing it here, and that's what I'm referring to as raw. Again, I'm looking at a picture, not the item itself, so I could be wrong.
EDIT: I put in a call to George and left a voicemail.

 

[orlandofurioso]

I love this, we are all nitpickers aren't we :P

"As medieval scholars argued over how many angels could dance on the head of a pin ...."

You could be right about the button being somewhat flattened, your eye for tiny details is amazing Jesse.

In real the rim looks less compromised , with a darker spot on the shank side. Overall the stain looks rather even but somewhat "peaky ".

Need to turn in now; beddy time this end of the world . Cannot wait to hear from George.

 

[georged]

Yup, topped for sure.
The stem pics don't show enough to make a determination, but based on what can be sort-of seen, it definitely looks suspect.

 

[orlandofurioso]

What a heartbreak this place can be
Thank you George, what is it exactly that looks suspect to you ?

 

[orlandofurioso]

What a heartbreak this place can be
Thank you George, what is it exactly that looks suspect to you ?

 

[orlandofurioso]

Sorry ; double post due to the machine.

 

[sablebrush52]

You could be right about the button being somewhat flattened, your eye for tiny details is amazing Jesse.

Thank you. That eye for tiny details has given me a 40 year career in films and TV. It's a blessing, and a curse. ::

 

[jpmcwjr]

Next time, you can either delete the extra post, or edit it to note what's happened.
I think what Jesse said was confirmed by George for the same reasons.

 

[georged]

Thank you George, what is it exactly that looks suspect to you ?

There isn't enough "roll over" from the leveling operation; the top line appears to waver; and the button isn't quite right.